Fertility Transparency: Overcoming the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Culture

but for a lot of my patients it was more just the comfort of me being there and having a medical professional with them

0:07

and asking all of these other questions related to their cycle and their fertility and not the actual injections

0:14

themselves and so as I was going to these patients and having more and more patients I realized oh my God I'm

0:20

spending so much time providing education and supplementary education

0:25

why aren't we answering these questions in the clinic

0:31

[Music]

0:39

okay I'm so excited to have you here um we have had doctors on before but never a fertility nurse so um I think nurses

0:48

are such important people and valuable people in this process I think they are people that make this more personalized

0:55

than doctors can well first let me introduce you but I'm just so excited to have you here and start having these conversations but Lea thank you so much

1:02

for being here you are not only a fertility nurse for over 10 years you are a fertility patient and you are the

1:08

co-founder and chief clinical officer of a very new product and platform that just launched this month Dandy yes Dandy

Introduction and career as a fertility nurse

1:15

fertility it's uh products and uh virtual care services which is I want to

1:20

save that for the end but it is filling such a gap um but thank you so much for being on quiet the clock these are such

1:26

important conversations to have and thank you for having you checked in from Jersey to be here we're so excited to have you thank you so much for having me

1:32

um let's start with your career and how you found yourself being a fertility nurse sure yeah um I always say it kind

1:40

of just fell into my lap because I used to work in Pediatrics and I was getting kind of bored for lack of a better word

1:47

because it becomes really monotonous you're doing the same thing every day and I was doing it for about five or six

1:53

years um and I just wanted to learn a new skill set so I actually applied for a recovery room position at a fertility

1:59

clinic M and when I went in the nurse manager asked me if I was interested in being an IVF nurse and I didn't have any

2:06

clue what IVF was I didn't know really I didn't know how old were you at that time I was 28 so not only did I not know

Discovering fertility nursing

2:13

anything about IVF but I didn't know as much as I thought I knew about fertility

2:19

about my own like cycle like my menstrual cycle my period all the things that I learned I had no idea which is so

2:25

interesting as a nurse right cuz we've had we have not had like I said we have not had a nurse on but as women that are

2:32

not in the medical field like we know nothing but that's really interesting to I really had no idea yeah and I I'd been

2:39

a nurse at that point for about seven years because I'd worked in the hospital and Pediatrics before and then the

2:45

pediatrician's office so it yeah I couldn't believe how little I knew about

2:50

my own cycles and fertility in general but yeah I was 28 at the time when I started and um so she asked me if it

2:57

wanted to be an IVF nurse like a floor fertility nurse instead of the recovery room I said sure you know I'm happy to

3:03

learn and see if it's my thing and it really quickly became my thing um I feel

3:10

like I used to always say that I don't have any real talents like when people were like singers or dancer I played

3:17

soccer my whole life I was decent but really I was decent but I always say I'm

3:22

like I don't have a real talent in life and I've now come to realize as an adult

3:28

that my talent is connecting with people and so I feel that the fertility journey

3:33

is so intimate oh my God that that connection is so important and I don't

Connecting with patients

3:39

think that every nurse has that in any field but especially in fertility so um

3:46

yeah it just kind of fell and I think that is such a niche and part of the medical world that requires people like

3:53

you that have that strength of making those connections because like you said it's such an intimate space it's such a

3:59

vulnerable space so I do think it takes someone that's passionate about it and can create those connections yeah so I was I

4:07

started RMA of New York it's I guess 10 years and then during my time there I

4:12

think it was about two or three years in I was doing one of my patients injections so I would go to people's homes and do their injections for them

4:19

yeah I want to I want to talk about that too but I want to back up because you said very quickly you realize this was your thing like what was it that made

4:25

you realize I think that I'm a hardcore empath and I think that that's what

4:31

fertility patients need they want to feel seen and heard and I think that

4:38

that's what made me connect with my patients so well and so whether it was you know delivering good news or bad

4:44

news I guess I was good at doing it in a way that made people feel really comfortable totally yeah and so and my

4:51

patient population wasn't very easy I had a pretty demanding patient population at RMA but I was just able to

Catering to demanding patient populations

4:59

connect what do you mean by that when you say demanding we have a lot of um you know high power career women um type

5:07

A personalities I'm Type A too so maybe I on that level um and so everything was

5:13

very you know scheduled and planned and um I think that those types of personalities myself included can be

5:20

very difficult because you are very demanding there certain standards that you go by and I was just able to cater

5:28

to them pretty well and so I would just hit it off I think too I'm curious your

5:34

thought on this is I think this is a and in a lot of ways in other medical Fields but obviously we're talking about

5:40

fertility being that way probably works to your benefit because I think you have to have such a voice and you have

5:47

advocate so hard yeah you do need to advocate for yourself in any walk of

5:52

health care but with fertility it's it's especially tough cuz like I said it's such an intimate thing it's not like

5:59

going going to your primary care provider right getting your physical getting an EKG this is very intimate

6:05

stuff and there's a lot of details with your you know sex life and things like that that you need to feel comfortable

6:11

talking to your Healthcare team about it's in it's instantly the state of vulnerability and for me as as a fertility patient too I think you're

6:18

already in this yeah you're already in this place of like very fragile very

6:24

vulnerable and it's yeah it's really hard so I think your job as a nurse is

6:29

so extremely important because you you have more of that patient care face to

6:34

face yeah we're the ones that that really are with the patients the most we're in contact with them the most they

6:40

see their you know their Physicians for that first consult for maybe an hour hour and a half tops and then when they

6:48

come in for monitoring they see the doctor for about 2 minutes total and then they get shifted to the nurse and

6:53

then the nurse calls with results and instructions at most clinics um so it really is the nurses that are heavy

7:00

contact with the patients do you think that that is sort of um talked about

Patient contact and expectations

7:05

enough or disclosed enough in the beginning that like hey here's the expectation like here's how much you're

7:10

going to see me here's how much you're going to talk to your nurse that wasn't my experience but I'm wondering if there like anything being done to just make

7:17

that expectation more clear because I've talked to so many women myself included my experience that there is this

7:23

frustration of not having that access to that do their doctor feeling like they're on a conveyor belt so I'm just

7:30

are a thatting about expectations I hope but I will say when I first started

7:36

working that was definitely the trend that that patients did not realize that or even with like their procedures they

7:43

didn't realize that because the office is open essentially 247 that your your doctor can't

7:49

physically be there every single day and so it's a rotating schedule of of Physicians and nurses and so you're not

7:55

seeing your doctor every day you might not even see the doctor that you consulted with for your actual egg

8:01

retrieval procedure for example so I think that over time we've learned that

8:06

the more we tell patients and the more they know what to expect the the better their patients are going to feel so I

8:12

think we're moving you know I can't speak for every Clinic I only have experience at at one clinic but um we

8:18

have a ton of patients and the other thing that you mentioned the conveyor belt thing and a lot of patients say

8:24

they feel like that or they feel like they're in a factory yeah um it's a blessing and a curse

8:30

because the upside of that is that these clinics that have the higher volumes have more data and they can yield you

8:38

know better results because dat using that data so it's really a blessing and a curse because yes it there's not that

8:45

much personalization which is where the the concierge business that I started that is now folded into Dandy that's

Challenges and solutions in fertility care

8:52

where that comes in but at the same time you have all of that data and you have

8:57

the success rate so it's really I don't think women know that and I didn't even realize that until you I spoke on the

9:02

phone months ago that that is sort of part of it is that we're the higher the

9:07

volume the more data the more we can maybe change protocols or tweak things to make it more successful yeah and if

9:14

it's a good Clinic the volume is going to build so you know some clinics start out and they may be a little bit feel

9:21

more bouquey and have less patient volume but if they're doing a good job

9:26

more people are going to come in and eventually everyone wants to be successful correct and their volume is

9:31

going to go up too and so you run into the same issues which is why I think supplementary care is so important which

9:39

is why I started my business and then you know when I met my co-founder we funnel in products and things like that

9:46

yeah well before you get there I have a couple more questions as as a nurse and having more you know connections with

9:52

patients close contact with patients what have you seen like what has your experience been like like working with

9:58

women and I'm curious like the difference between women egg freezing versus women going through IVF like is

10:04

there a different emotional experience yeah yeah I think every subset of patients has their own unique anxieties

Emotional experiences in fertility treatments

10:12

and things that need to be catered to I think my egg freezing patients often feel like they're a little bit neglected

10:19

because they're not actively trying to conceive and so they're they may feel like they're not the priority or they

10:26

may be sensitive to um you I I remember you know in the beginning they when

10:32

they're training you things to say and things not to say to every subset of patients and they're very sensitive to

10:38

if they don't have a partner for example so if they're egg freezing without a partner they're very sensitive to that

10:43

so I think that they all have their unique things that you need to cater to and be really cognizant of and be really

10:49

sensitive toward and so yeah I do think my egg freezing patients my um a lot of

10:56

our primary infertility meaning they don't have any children yet and secondary infertility they're trying

11:02

after they have one or more children I feel like those patient populations are very different too and there's a lot of

11:07

feelings with each other that you need to kind of separate as well know so yeah

11:12

every subset of my patients definitely has their own things to cater to and and

11:18

yeah certainly a sensitivity for the women going through egg freezing single

11:23

um and there's been a lot of like talk about can there be a process that is

11:29

more catered to them like paperwork that's just forre them or a space in the

11:34

clinic that could just be for them because it's been triggering for women to go in and see people with their

11:39

partners and a lot of women that have been on here and even my own experience is because they haven't well I froze in

11:45

my relationship but are single and in their later 30s and feeling the pressure of the clock and the timeline and so to

11:52

see women in there with a partner trying for a baby is it's triggering yeah

11:57

absolutely just like it's it's triggering if we have our patients with secondary infertility that bring their

12:03

children into the office and most clinics have very strict policies but you know every once in a while that you

12:10

know people aren't abiding by the policies and that's very triggering for someone who's going through primary

12:15

infertility so I I was going to ask you this later when we spoke more about Dandy but because we're talking about

12:21

sort of these different subsets and what's triggering is you guys have created amazing Community with Danny on

12:26

on a WhatsApp platform and is it navigating that because you know for me

12:32

I'm I'm in that group and I'm reading those messages but some of it is hard because I'm not in the same place of other women and have you found it

12:38

challenging to like just cultivate a community there when there can be triggering things yes and and our plan

Creating a supportive community

12:45

is to separate now into I've seen you guys start different different groups for very specific you know subsets and

12:54

um you know repeat loss or if you haven't even done a transfer yet or this

12:59

is your first egg freezing cycle this is your you know third egg retrieval so we're trying to make more you know very

13:07

specific groups for people so that it does feel less triggering and then I'm

13:12

supposed to just navigate the medical side of it right so often I let it be more peer-to-peer if it's not on a

13:19

medical you know I see you hopping in there and answering like medical something that I see that's very like

13:25

medically inaccurate or you know um kind of spir in down I I did this so you

13:31

should try this kind of thing I like to step in and and and kind of there's a lot of that yeah and and that's really

13:37

what ends up happening on the Facebook forums and the Reddit forums and that's why we created this community we

13:44

actually have medically credible nurses on there to moderate it which is so amazing because and I'll speak for

13:51

myself like the Google holes you can go down because you can't have access to a doctor or someone else and you want

13:56

questions answered right away so have that access to some amazing yep yep and so having someone that's actually a

14:02

medical professional moderating it is much better than you just go on you read

14:08

read read read read and it's it's just so confusing sometimes and there's so much conflicting information oh my God

14:15

one thing will say something and something is saying something and then you're like yes going crazy over it yeah so that's what we're trying to correct

14:22

yeah yeah I think that's amazing yeah um and we'll get to learn more about Danny but I want to stay with you as a as a

14:28

nurse just as a nurse 10 years have are you still surprised by we're talking about sort of this lack of information

14:35

or what women know about their bodies and even what you knew at 28 just going into this field does it still surprise

14:41

you to or do you still see a lot of women not knowing about our bodies and oh absolutely absolutely I was lucky

Addressing lack of knowledge about fertility

14:47

that I started when I was 28 and that's kind of like when they say your egg quality can start to decline and so I

14:52

was going into that world and I always thought I'm just going to wait to have kids like everyone's doing it at like 40

14:58

now like in your life at 28 were you I just gotten married I I have been with my husband since high school but we kind

15:05

of just like waited to do everything so we waited a really long time to get engaged we waited a really long time to get married and then we thought that we

15:12

were going to wait to have kids if we were even going to have kids okay and then I started working in fertility and

15:18

I was like okay I gotta I got to think about changed your perspective

15:23

oneline that's why I think education the younger the better because 's a lot of

15:29

females who think that oh this doesn't really apply to me right now like I I'm not worried about this right now but

15:36

then you get to when you think it's okay to start thinking about it and sometimes it can be too late so I think education

15:43

is so important because like I said I didn't even know how my own period

15:48

worked until I started working there at 28 years old but no one's telling us to worry about it no one's telling us at

15:54

our like annual checkups to like start thinking about these no one told me like at 34 35 like I I can't even remember

16:02

how we learned about egg freezing like no one is talking about these things and I think it's also I've had some guests I

16:08

have had um some guests in their early 30s we that came on to talk specifically about like navigating dating in in New

16:14

York City and they were saying it was brought up to them by their gynecologist but she's like I don't want to be in that conversation yet so it's sort of

16:20

like navigating this line of like planting the seeds but allowing them to kind of come to the decision themselves

16:26

yeah and that's why I think it's more educ them give them the tools and then they can make their own decisions

16:32

instead of being like pushy about it but the education I think should definitely be there because at 28 I knew nothing at

16:39

least at 28 right I've have known some women it's like 34 35 yeah I had read I think I just got lucky that that's when

16:46

I started working in the fertility space I had seen somewhere the average age that someone finds himself in a

16:51

fertility CL Clinic is like 36 points yeah yeah my average patient when I first started my average patient was

16:57

between the ages of probably 36 37 and like 42 that was the

17:03

range of patients that I had yeah now it's gotten a little bit young seeing

17:08

that like now that there are more conversations like these and more information out there if it's yes yes I

17:13

think that that's kind of gotten a little bit younger especially for my egg freezers which is a great thing but when I first started it was about 36 37

17:20

through like 42 43 what do you think it's being done you know again more conversations being had I think social

17:26

media is really helpful like there's so many women they're sharing their stories which is wonderful you have your

17:31

community um is there anything else being done to sort of close this gap on lack of knowledge I think the clinics

17:38

are starting to do more free seminars on on fertility and egg freezing so that

17:45

patients can come without booking a consult and feeling like they're tied to the clinic and they're tied to treatment

17:52

or the cost so they come to a free seminar just to learn about the process and I think that that's very very

17:58

helpful yeah because the cost can can be the biggest hindrance so totally yeah we

18:04

are having I was having a conversation earlier too about the fear of the knowledge as well because I've had so many women as working as a therapist

18:11

that they're they're around that age and I'm kind of walking that line of like should we start talking about this should you start thinking about it but

18:16

there is this fear around knowing KN what their fertility may or may not be yeah because then they have to make

18:22

choices and that's they're they're not easy choices to make yeah have you have you had a lot of patients that come in

18:29

and are surprised to find out like where their fertility is at oh yeah yeah I've had like the really sad cases where it's

18:36

like a 28 30y old and they just happen to have diminished ovarian reserve and

18:42

or premature ovarian failure they and no genetic history you know no family

18:48

history and it's just like a complete blow I've had those really sad cases and

18:53

then I've had people that come in that think that you know it's really very easy to freeze your eggs at 42 43 and

19:00

there's cases like that as well and then I've even had patients that are closer to 50 that come in to evaluate their

19:08

fertility and when we tell them that they're in par menopause or something like that they they can't even believe

19:13

that they're because they might be so fit and um you think you're so healthy correct you might you might feel very

19:20

young and and I always say this to my patients because I know age is a very sensitive thing in the fertility space

19:26

how you feel and what your biological eggs are are completely different

19:33

unfortunately we just don't have biology on our sides in that respect and so how you feel is not unfortunately correlated

19:42

to what right your your you know evaluation might show yeah what is your

19:47

thought on the age because that does cause so much angst and one of the reasons that this is called quiet the

19:53

clock is that there is this narrative that like at 35 your fertility falls off the cliff and so all these women in you

19:59

know early 30s are just like feel like we're up against this clock and I felt that way too like what is it's a lot of

Age and fertility

20:04

pressure it's so much pressure yeah but it's built on this narrative that at 35

20:10

it's it's over 35 has always been even before I started working fertility I

20:15

remember 35 has always been that scary number for some reason where it's not even that accurate um but 35 is kind of

20:25

that number where the statistics start to flip in terms of the chromosomal stuff so like your egg quality starts to

20:32

decline at 35 is what has always been that number that everyone you know comes

20:39

to um and I think that everyone's medical history and and biological

20:45

makeup is so different sure I have patients that come in and you know we have our unicorn 45y olds that make a

20:53

normal embryo or two and go on to have a successful pregnancy is that happening on a regular basis no that's why we call

21:00

them like our unicorn PA so whenever someone asks me about egg freezing even

21:07

my own friends if they're even thinking about preserving their fertility or embryos I have a lot of friends who law

21:13

school medical school and they're with their Partners or they might even you know have already made plans their

21:19

family plans with their Partners but they're not ready yet or they're in school and they're not in a place where

21:25

they can have children yet and so any sort of fertility preservation that anyone asks me about I always say the

The Younger, the Better

21:32

younger the better and I don't mean that to scare people or put pressure on people it's just it's just a biological

21:40

you know fact that we're cating to it's science and so I think that the younger you are if you have the means to do it

21:47

absolutely do it there's no there's no downside but there are pros and cons and

21:54

I think that when you go to a fertility conect to preserve your fertility nobody is telling you the actual process of

22:01

when the time comes to actually use what you froze whether it's sperm or eggs or embryos no one's telling you what

22:08

actually goes into that piece of it well I know and I was sharing off camera that we're trying to get Dr browb on here to talk about all those parts because when

Misconceptions About Fertility Preservation

22:15

I went back to use my eggs there was so much that I didn't know so I think you know it's such a huge step to make the

22:22

decision to freeze your eggs it's such a huge process to do it emotionally physically financially that I think for women that go through that and aren't

22:28

doing it that are doing to preserve they're like okay it's done now I don't have to think about it like the eggs are in the bank it's my insurance and we're

22:34

not really thinking about yeah and that's not how it works at all and again when I tell my friends to preserve their

22:41

fertility I always tell them by the way if and when you go to use your eggs or

22:46

embryos or whatever this is the breakdown of what happens and this is you know statistically if you have X

22:53

amount of eggs let's say you froze eggs this is the statistics for if your family plan is to children you need to

22:59

have X amount of eggs frozen to maybe be able to do that and I it's a lot higher

23:04

than people think a lot higher why do you think those conversations aren't being had I still think that there's

Challenges in Fertility Counseling

23:12

just a lot of don't ask don't tell and I think if you don't know the right questions to ask and you're not asking

23:18

the doctors aren't even thinking to tell the patients by the way when you come to use your 20 frozen eggs this is the

23:26

process this is the the the drop from 20 to x amount of embos that we may make

23:32

drop to thaw drop to fertilize drop to exactly Blas exactly exactly and I think

23:39

there's also so much information to cover in that initial consult that the

23:45

doctors aren't getting to everything and patients are probably so overwhelmed

23:50

with information that you don't know what to ask and again that's where the supplementary care comes in and people

23:55

like me who do the Consulting and kind of prep you beforehand and then hold

24:01

your hand through it is very important I had a a meltdown moment after my

24:06

miscarriage because I was just consuming so much information reading so many books and like Rob my partner was like

24:12

you need to stop I was like you don't understand I need to know so I have the questions it's like I didn't have the

24:19

questions like I didn't know what to ask so I think I think what you've created

24:24

is amazing because there's so much and we'll talk about this too because you're also a fertility patient yourself

24:30

there's so much else going on that to have to do all of that other stuff and figure out all this other information is

24:37

so daunting but I had that moment it's like I I have to be armed with the knowledge because I have to be able to

24:42

have the questions like you don't have the questions and it's sort of this don't ask don't tell space like you're

24:47

saying you're going to have all these unanswered questions yeah yeah and then then you don't feel comfortable going

24:53

into the process no yeah was that one of your so I'm curious the motivation well it's clear as you were talking what the

25:00

motivation there's this huge gap to start Dandy but first your coner business but did you see those gaps did

25:06

you have frustrations kind of what was going on and it so at first I was very

Starting a Concierge Service

25:11

like naive to it I didn't know anything about it but then when I started doing at home injections for patients and

25:17

answering so many questions that had nothing to do with the actual injection so for some people yes the needles are

25:23

very frightening they have a phobia they want someone to they don't they can't even look at them they can't mix them prepare them nothing but for a lot of my

25:30

patients it was more just the comfort of me being there and having a medical

25:35

professional with them and asking all of these other questions related to their cycle and their fertility and not the

25:42

actual injections themselves and so as I was going to these patients and having more and more patients I realized oh my

25:49

God I'm spending so much time providing education and supplementary education

25:55

why aren't we answering these questions in the clinic and the answer to that because I do think that I was a very

26:01

good nurse in clinic and um the clinic that I worked at was very very good it's

26:06

just that because of the high volume of patience we didn't have the time we I I

26:11

don't have more than you know five minutes to relay your results and instructions because I have to move on

26:17

to the next patient was that hard for you CU did you want to spend more than five minutes yes yes a lot of times

26:22

especially patients that you become closer with or if they've been there for a longer time you want to spend that time assuring them and connecting with

26:29

them and so I was doing all of that outside of office hours and then I realized oh my god there these questions

26:36

are not being answered in clinic at a very good clinic so if I can't do it and

26:42

this great Clinic can't do it and I think I'm a really good nurse then something is missing and then I started

26:47

my own concierge business one of my patients kept pushing me to do it and I knew nothing about the business World

26:52

they didn't know how to start a business that's so funny cuz as a therapist too like we go to school for all the stuff and then they're like you start your own

26:58

business and you're like I don't know it's not our wheelous not at all we're learning our yeah we're learning our field it's not our wheelhouse and so she

27:04

kept pushing me and so I finally looked into it and started it and um I started

27:10

having clients from all different clinics in the city and then eventually um Nationwide doing a lot of virtual

27:15

consults a lot of virtual injection walkthroughs and I have nurses that go out and do at home injections for

Dadi Fertility's Launch

27:21

patients but what we did with with Dandy was fold all of these virtual care

27:27

services into the products that my co-founder was working on and actually one of my former patients was an early

27:34

adviser for the company he's the one that connected me he sent me the deck and he said I think you would be perfect

27:40

for this and then I connected with my co-founder and we who we're going to have on the podcast too to talk about

27:47

again Dandy but also his experience as a male in theace in the fertility space yeah prior to Dandy how did women find

27:55

you in the conier service or how did women know and I think I shared this with you on a call I never knew that that was an option to have an at home

28:01

nurse because again if you're egg freezing as a single person you might not have somebody that can help you with

28:07

that or have anyone there with you let alone a medical professional so how do women know that that service even

28:13

existed yeah so at first it was just word of mouth so I did one or two people and then it kind of just spread from

Filling the Gap in Fertility Care

28:20

referrals and then I hired someone to do my social media cuz again not M and she

28:26

did a fantastic job and that kind of kind of built my clientele and yeah between the word of mouth and the social

28:32

media that's how I kind of started growing and that was without any marketing or advertising so because

28:38

women are yeah and honestly I would meet so many women they're like oh I wish I knew you existed when I was through my

28:44

fertility treatment yeah and I think women don't know that it exists and and

28:50

it's such a useful huge yeah the Consulting the reassurance knowing you

28:56

know the prep before you go into of fertility just knowing you have access to somebody if you need them and not

29:02

feeling like isolated or like out on an island trying to navigate all of this when yeah and all the forums like well

29:09

how do I know that this person random person on the internet is someone that I can trust yes a trustworthy source so

29:16

let's talk more about Dany because you guys just launched yeah we just launched last week and tell us more about what

The Need for Comprehensive Support

29:21

you guys are providing yeah so Jake had um was working on C uh products to make

29:27

the fertility injection process more comfortable so the injections there's no

29:32

you know great way to make them suck any less they're not pleasant I've done them

29:37

myself and they're not great but we wanted to come up with a way to make people feel more comfortable while they

29:43

were doing it a more holistic approach to it and also women are peace mealing

29:49

all the things so sticking an ice pack in their leggings before injecting themselves or having this ginormous

29:56

heating pad that you have to be stuck into the wall for I personally wasn't doing what I tell all my patients to do

30:02

we never do even as a therapist yeah because I don't have time to be plugged into the wall with this heating pad so

30:07

we've come up with products that are you know handsfree um they're very beautiful

30:13

beautiful they cater to fertility patients they're not these things that you're peac mealing together that

30:18

doesn't feel like again being feeling like you're being seen and heard and so

30:23

we wanted to create a fertility brand just for this subset of Pati um and so

30:29

he was working on the products and then my my patient was an early advisor with him brought me into the mix and I told

30:37

Jake about the services that i' had been working on with my coner service and I'd always wanted to scale it but didn't

30:43

know how and so this was kind of the perfect partnership yeah and we think that the products and the services work

30:49

beautifully together you don't have to purchase those Services um you know to

30:55

use the product or vice versa we think they work beautifully together but it's kind of all a c as well so that

31:01

everybody can do what caters to their specific needs yeah my sense is if

31:06

someone at first just buys the product they're going to eventually want the services too if they don't think they

31:12

need them at first I it's hard to know what you need before going through the process yes and we feel very confident

31:19

in if you do book with one of our nurses you're going to have such a good experience that you're going to come

31:25

back because I I do think our team of nurses is just phenomenal I bet I bet

31:30

they're phenomenal I think to women are seeking that support and that knowledge and again it's so nice to have a medical

31:36

professional and prior to your service I think women were just trying to connect with other women that have been through egg freezing or but they don't I mean

31:43

they have the knowledge of their own experience and maybe what they learned but they don't have your background or what any of the other nurses that are

31:49

part of the platform correct and it kind of becomes a little bit of everyone thinks because they went through it

31:55

they're an expert and what works for me is not necessarily going to work for you

32:00

and that's one thing that I actually loved about remember when I said that working Pediatrics had become a little

32:05

bit monness you don't see that in the fertility space and this is exactly why every

32:10

female's medical history and and biological makeup is different and so

32:16

what works for me is not necessarily going to work for you right and also in terms of clinics and doctors and

32:22

clinical care teams everybody's personality is different and so I might love this doctor at this clinic and you

32:29

might have a terrible experience had experience and if you go on these forums and you see like someone's bashing this

32:36

clinic and doctor and you're like oh I actually love that doctor and I have success with this doctor and so that's

32:41

where you know when it's not personalized and it's just at random on the internet it becomes a little bit

32:48

difficult to navigate how do I trust this person they're not an expert I went through child birth I am not anywhere

32:54

near child birth twice I am not an expert I can only tell you my experience

33:00

but that doesn't make me an expert and so I think having a trusted Medical Professional is very important yeah yeah

33:07

and you guys also will have therapists on yes yeah yes so we're going to build out a whole team that we've you know

33:13

vetted out and and used ourselves and that's when I started my concierge business even acupunctur I'd never done

33:20

acupuncture before and people would come to me and say hey can you put me on the Referral List as a provider and I'm like

33:27

I can but only after I've actually used you myself and then I can vouch for you

33:33

and so I started doing acupuncture and kind of feeling out which providers were really good and putting those people on

33:40

our list and that's what we're going to do with Dandy it's going to be very highly Source I think it has to be in

33:46

this again in this space it's so again vulnerable and intimate and you need people that really are connected and and

33:52

passionate and really good at what they do yeah yeah absolutely you need to feel comfortable 100%

33:58

so not only have you started this amazing bus that you've been an incred fertility nurse for over 10 years you

34:03

are a fertility patient yourself so can you share a little bit about that yeah and and again naively I never thought

Personal Experience with Fertility Challenges

34:11

that I would be on the other side of it it took me a little over a year it took us to get pregnant with my first

34:17

daughter um and I had a pretty uneventful pregnancy um I had to do a

34:23

CVS they I had like a false positive on one of my uh prenatal t just learned what that is I didn't know what that was

34:30

well let's share what that is for so a CVS is um to kind of make break it down

34:35

to layman terms they they stick a needle through it's either vaginal or abdominal depending on where your placenta lies

34:42

and they take out some of the placental fluid to test so if you have a prenatal blood work done and they check the

34:48

chromosomes if there's anything that shows on there then they recommend doing this test because it's more accurate

34:54

okay so I had a false positive test and I had to do with CVS so that was a little scary but in general my pregnancy

35:01

was pretty uncomplicated thankfully um and then in between my first and second

35:06

pregnancy we froze embryos you know I didn't know what our family plan was I didn't know if we wanted more children

35:13

how many more children we wanted so I took advantage of where I was working and I said let's freeze embryos I was

35:19

wondering because we were talking off camera about this what what made you freeze embryos yeah I just thought it was the smart prudent thing to do and if

35:25

you never use them okay fine but I wanted to know that I that I had them I didn't want to look back and say oh I

35:31

should have right and the younger I was the better so we froze embryos and then I got pregnant with my second daughter

35:39

and after that we decided my husband was going to get a vasectomy we thought we were done and even if we changed our

35:46

minds we had the frozen embryo so we were like okay cool this is this plan makes sense and the doctors were on

35:52

board we were all thought that we were doing the right thing my husband had a vasectomy and then we changed our minds

35:58

and wanted to grow our family and so again everyone thought it was like a sure thing I was going to go in do a

36:04

transfer put in a tested embryo I've had two normal pregnancies and it was going to be fine I wasn't that much older than

Navigating IVF and Pregnancy Loss

36:12

I was had anyone said to you hey this is not a

36:17

guarantee no and in my head I never again naively I I had two pregnancies

36:22

why wouldn't a tested embryo work I think that's a misunderstanding too and I was for me as well is that if they're

36:28

tested it would just it's I think people go into IVF thinking okay now I'm doing IVF I'm paying all this money I'm doing

36:35

all this you know I'm putting all this strain on myself I'm doing these injections okay now that I'm doing IVF

36:40

it's going to work and IVF is not 100% guarantee and again that's a don't ask don't tell thing there are statistics

36:48

there's a 30% of the time even with the most beautifully graded normal embryo

36:54

that it might not even take it might not even result in a and if it does implant like in my case

37:01

over and over again where I've been having repeat loss there's no guarantee and I think people go into IVF thinking

37:07

okay well now that I'm doing it it's bound to work again I would still recommend it hands down especially for

37:14

people that have repeat loss where they know that it's a chromosomal issue so we know that you can get pregnant but

37:21

you're losing the pregnancy because of a chromosomal issue it's not viable with life right of course for those people

37:27

yes we predict that you're going to fall into that category where once we put in a tested embryo you're going to be okay

37:34

so not not to make it all you know like Doom and Gloom right right but for me it was very much a naive and but the

37:41

doctors too they thought it was a sure thing and so I did my first transfer it

37:47

worked on the first try um and then I went in I was going to do a CVS and they

37:53

usually do it between 10 and 13 weeks so I went in at 12 weeks to do a CVS just because I was so nervous about what had

38:00

happened before that I and I had done a CVS with my second pregnancy because of that as well and I went in at 12 weeks

38:07

and there was no heartbeat and again the things that I naively as a nurse like

38:14

when the when the ultrasound tech was scanning and then she said I'm going to go get the doctor and I didn't even like

38:21

my husband and I were still just like chatting like nothing that moment I didn't and then now looking back on it

38:26

I'm like how did did I not know when she was scanning me over and over and then had to go get the doctor I wasn't even

38:32

paying attention because I thought everything was was going smoothly for

38:38

you though is there this like not a disconnect but like in that moment I'm not a fertility nurse I'm a I'm a woman

38:43

trying to have a third baby not yet it hadn't hit me yet I still felt like I

38:49

knew everything and I knew that everything was going smoothly and then when the doctor came in and and said I'm

38:56

sorry sorry I'm going to no I'm going to chill I'm going to cry and then she said I'm sorry and then I just lost it and I

39:02

never thought knowing everything that I know that I would even handle it like that I I already have two healthy kids

39:09

at home how could you know how could you know how I never thought the way that I handled it the way that I reacted I

39:15

never thought I would react given that I already had two children but um it's

39:21

something that you like you can't explain to people what it feels like um yeah you're making me like go right back

39:26

to moment like that and it's but it's made me a better nurse I think I I would

Empathy and Compassion in Nursing

39:32

have to when that was one of my questions for you is yeah is how has it changed your work and how you work um I

39:38

always thought I was very empathetic but it has a th% made me a better nurse um

39:45

you you don't understand it until you've been through it and so now when I have a patient who has a loss whether you know

39:51

and people say to you oh yeah like I had a miscarriage too but it was really early and I'm like don't don't do your

39:58

just because mine was it you know the first time was it 11 weeks the second time was 10 the third time was just shy

40:04

of 16 weeks but it's a loss is a loss and once you get pregnant you're already

40:09

a or even before I think I think and and share with me if you feel it like once you know you want another you're already

40:15

attaching to the idea that baby and and the image of your family now and it's that's it so you're grieving so much

40:23

it's grief and grief is grief it doesn't matter how early it was how late it was was grief is grief um and so yeah so now

40:30

when I have a patient who has a loss I find that I handle it completely differently because as empathetic as I

40:37

thought I was and as nice as I thought it was as I was I was still Jaded by it

40:43

and I was like okay well I see this all the time so you know we're going to regroup and we're going to get you

40:48

through this and we're going to try again and now having been through it so many times I'm like I can't believe that

40:55

I ever spoke to a patient like that and if I could go back I would absolutely do

41:00

it differently but now I do do it differently yeah you had such a beautiful post where you share your

41:06

story and I love how you wrote that and like you said this oscillation between grief and gratitude which I thought was

41:13

so beautiful because it's so true to that process and I couldn't agree with you more unless you've been through it

41:18

you can't really relate to it and yeah you know the whole when it was happening for me you try to find Gras to something

41:25

and I'm like okay I can help more women now or like anyone I have on my podcast I can relate to what they have been

41:31

going through but I still have this tremendous amount of grief grief and and the other thing you said in that post was like the feeling you get when you

41:38

see another pregnant woman yeah and that pay but then you also said which I really like now I'm crying was just like

41:46

the relief for her cuz she made it through the other side I do every time I see a like a very pregnant person or

41:52

someone with a newborn I'm like oh my God like thank God the other side now it's not I think cuz I I said it's not

41:59

about getting pregnant anymore it's about staying pregnant and it's about bringing this baby here cuz the other side yeah I think the other side is

The infertility journey

42:06

they're here yeah yeah it's a relief yeah and I feel very lucky of course

42:11

that I that I got to experience it all and that I that I've been through that process before and that I have two

42:17

healthy kids and I don't look at other people who you know are pregnant or have

42:22

a newborn and think any negative way about it I feel sadness for myself and

42:28

for my family that we wanted to grow but I don't feel um like bitter or I'm just

42:35

like oh my God like I'm like I'm so happy for you that like you've made it this far that you have the baby like you

42:41

got through all of that that rough stuff so yeah it definitely changes your

42:46

perspective on there's no way for and I think it's important to normalize that you can feel all of those all of the

Embracing emotions

42:52

things yeah I think and I think the first time it happened to me I still felt like couldn't and I didn't have the

42:58

space Oh it's secondary infertility I already have two healthy kids like do I

43:03

really have the right to be feeling these things and so the first time it happened I was kind of like okay like

43:09

let's go I'm just going to try it again it was just bad luck the second time it happened I was like okay like to to you

43:16

know my bad luck has to run out at some point so then when we did it the third time now I think I've allowed myself to

43:23

feel all the things and and kind of go through like when I need to C cry I cry

The need for grieving

43:28

and when I you know the days that I have good days great and then sometimes I remember that it happened and it all

43:34

comes back again and now I just actually allow all the feeling I think that's so

43:39

important I think you're obviously a very ambitious person and I think a lot of us are type A and like control all

43:46

the things and we could just like keep soldiering on in a lot of ways we do we have children we have careers we have

43:51

things that that need us but I think giving us ourselves that space to to grieve and to feel the emotions is so

43:58

important yeah absolutely it's necessary yeah cuz it it can compound and I think

44:03

that that's like that's something that my OB said to me when I I saw her last week just as a followup after my

44:09

procedure and everything after this last time and that's something that she said to me and she was so right and I didn't

44:16

want to realize that but it compounds over time so whether it's your first

Honoring the journey

44:21

loss whether you haven't been able to get pregnant yet and you're starting your fertility treatment no matter where

44:27

you are in the journey if you don't honor all of that while you're going through it it really does just pile on

44:35

on top of each other and it's yeah it's so necessary to go through any subset

44:41

you're in I think I'm thinking about the egg women egg freezing too like feeling all like you know some women feel ow and

44:47

great others feel sad and frustrated and angry and like just feeling all the feelings as you're going through this is

44:52

so important wherever you're at yes journe abely absolutely that's the the healthiest way to do it yeah yeah well

44:59

thank you for all that you have done in the space thank you for all that you are doing you guys are creating such an amazing amazing thing with Dandy for

45:07

women it's going to I can't wait to watch it just soar because it will it's you guys are feeling such a huge huge

45:14

gap before we wrap up I want to ask you anything that you would share with the

45:20

audience the the question we want to ask is what is your quiet the clock moment because we are so kind of tune to the

45:27

biological clock the societal timeline and there are a lot of things we can't control and we have a lot of things

45:33

happen in our life that we didn't see as the vision or the timeline yeah so did you if you could think of one now like

45:38

your quiet the clock moment that to sort of let go of our own timelines or timelines we thought the way things

45:44

would go yeah I think letting go of that perfect ending that you have in your head is the we don't have control and so

45:53

letting go of that perfect ending there's not always a perfect ending and it doesn't have to be perfect to still

Letting go of perfect endings

45:59

be really good but I think letting go of that perfect ending that you imagined

46:04

for yourself is is super important I love that I think we hold on too much to this like idea yeah yeah and it could

46:11

still be really good without being perfect or without it being the way that you imagined it to be it could still be

46:18

very good well Lea thank you so much for being here thank you so much for everything you're doing and wishing you

46:24

and Dy all of the success thank you thank you so much for having me

‍