Beyond WordPress: Kids and Women in Web Development

Dallin (00:00):

Welcome to Visionaries where we believe your powerful message is the best way to grow your business, impact the world and live a meaningful life. Today, we are talking with Julia Taylor of Geek Pack, Screw the Commute, where she helps serve aspiring and growing online business owners to ditch the nine to five. She says to say up yours to the nine to five, to empower these people, to use tech, uh, to provide services and to really transform their lives and a new way of approaching their business and career. So let's get into this interview with Julia Taylor. You've started a coding boot camp for kids, right. Uh, recently, can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and so what kind of, uh, did you see that as an opportunity to help kids who were starting to learn from home or was that something you felt like was already in the works to be like, Hey, like I want to reach out to the younger generation to help them prepare for the skills that you can make a great living online.

Julia (01:10):

Yeah. Yeah. So back in April, so I've always, ever since I started teaching, it's always been adults, um, which is awesome, but ever since I started, I've always really loved the idea of teaching kids to code and I know there are a lot of programs out there, but there's, you know, is it fun? Is it, is it, and it not just coding, but creating things online, like Zoom, virtual backgrounds or, um, AutoCAD for kids. So creating three D stuff that you can go and take to a 3D printer and create creative writing, uh, graphic design, um, building websites, the whole camp kind of has tons of stuff. That's for kids to code and create. So back in April, um, it was end of March, beginning of April, right? When code was like at its peak schools were shutting down, kids were at home, parents were not going to go "gaah, what am I going to do with my kids?"

Julia (02:03):

And I thought this was a perfect opportunity. I'm going to take this opportunity. I'm going to build a kids, coding camp, completely free, offer it. And to my email list. And you know, maybe a few hundred people will be interested, you know, 2000, 2000 plus maybe a few hundred. I know it did it really, it was, it was awesome. And the testimonials I would, every day we had a Facebook group and we had challenges for the kids to go through. And when they completed stuff, their parents would post in the Facebook group. And, you know, the, the, the excitement and the, the feeling of empowerment that the kids had and like the kids couldn't wait to show their parents and it would be a, Hey mom, can I have 10 more minutes of screen time? Because I'm learning how to code, not, you know, I'm wasting mindless hours watching YouTube.

Julia (02:51):

So that from the parent's perspective, that's what they kept saying to me is they could have as much screen time as they wanted, because it was positive, it was guilt-free, they were learning something, they were building, they were creating and siblings were doing it together. Friends and schools were zooming together and doing it and sharing what they'd done, building video games, building apps on their phones. So this is the sort of stuff that they got to do in the, in the three weeks. So we ran that and it was, it was just such a, um, such an awesome thing, such a big success. We've we've turned it around and now we're, we've just recently started kind of running it again, um, just in the last week. So yeah, it's, it's so fun to see kids, and it's not just the fun part of learning to code and create, but we have a, an additional kind of add on course that they can take that is for entrepreneurial kids.

Julia (03:41):

So if a kid doesn't want to sell eliminate, or they don't want to babysit another one, and they want to help their parents in their business, they want to create social media graphics for the parents. They want to help their neighbor with their G suite, um, you know, whatever it could be. They want to build a website for their neighbor who can't go into their shop anymore because foot traffic has come down. So they want to build something. We teach them those skills. So it's really cool to kind of see kids learn fun skills that they can use in their future, but also, Hey, you want to make some money and do something for your neighbor. We've got stuff on that too. So.

Dallin (04:19):

You know, one thing I love hearing about this too, is so screw the commute can mean a lot of things, at least, you know, obviously you ditch the nine to five, but also, uh, within the context of what you're doing, it's serving those who want to build tech related careers, you know, coding has to do with it. I know WordPress, is it required of your world, you know, web design development. Uh, what did you, when you first kind of ventured, I guess, what was the turning point when you were being a service provider for others doing WordPress that you're like, well, wait a minute, this, this goes far beyond the, just to say, a platform of WordPress, um, and tech support in some ways, um, I can build something bigger and more of a movement out of this and serve both the current working, uh, class, but also the future as well.

Julia (05:11):

Yeah. So it was, I remember it like it was yesterday. Uh, so my husband used to be in the military and then he retired and we didn't know what he was going to do for work after. So I have this business that I can do from anywhere. So we thought let's live in an RV. So we sold everything and we lived in an RV for a year and a half. And as we're traveling, I'm documenting on Instagram and the amount of people that would reach out on Instagram and say, well, are you independently wealthy? Are your parents paying for this? You know, how can you afford to travel? And, and you know, what do you do for work? So I'd say, Oh, I would tell him what I did for work and how I taught myself. And it was always, I want to learn, I want to learn, I want to know to do that because I want the lifestyle that you have.

Julia (06:00):

So I thought, okay, I'll try. So I created a free five day coding challenge, exactly how I learned, but in a more kind of structured way, just how I thought if I were to relearn, how would I want to, to learn? And I tried to put that into play. So I created this and it was more successful than I ever thought when people loved it and they want to learn more. We want to learn more, like show us more and teach us more the clients and the online business and the whole shebang. So, so that's, that's kind of how it happened, but it was completely organic. Um, and I always wanted to, um, there's something in the, in the kind of coding, web development world that is not very nice. There's, um, people who look down on you, if you didn't get an education, if you haven't worked for Google, if you know all these things, and I really hated that.

Julia (06:55):

And I think as women, we took it a lot harder. We, we, we we're a lot more sensitive. We take things harder and to kind of break into the tech world as a female, it is, it's tough. There's not as many. And, you know, recruiters are looking for, you know, the degrees and all these things. And I would join Facebook groups like coding, co coders and web developers, and that people were just mean, they were rude. They were not supportive. It was no, um, like community build each other up sort of feel, which is very off putting for a female. So, um, the, the big thing that I really wanted to create was a community of mostly women, but I got a ton of really awesome guys in my, in my community as well. Um, who, who support each other and encourage each other, and we celebrate wins, and we tell each other, we share what we've done. And we can ask the silly questions that you wouldn't be comfortable asking in a, a, you know, a group full of full of men that will make you feel bad about yourself. So that was probably the thing. And I say, this don't worry. I love men.

Dallin (08:05):

You're married to one. Yeah, no, it's fine.

Julia (08:07):

Yeah. So it's, that was a really important thing for me, because I didn't have that when I was learning. And I know that my journey would have been much better, much easier, and a lot quicker. It took me a long time to kind of get to where I am if I had a community like that. So that, that's one of the things that, um, and that that's my, my geek pack community, um, that, that I love more than anything is, is that, that community.

Dallin (08:34):

Yeah. You know, I love hearing that perspective. Um, cause I would say it definitely speaks to, uh, the, the struggles that women and, and some men, but, but permanently, definitely women have with stepping into the tech space because you know what you may saying, like Silicon Valley and the tech startups a lot, it's very male driven, at least on the surface. Right. Um, even for me, and maybe you don't know this, but my, uh, my bachelor's degree was in information technology. Um, and so I, I love tech, you know, like I, I love word, you know, all these things, like I've done web design development and, and I saw very heavily, you know, a male presence. And so girl, like women were definitely involved. And, but, but I, I believe, you know, it's definitely like what you're charting is a path, not even for women, but for a whole mindset shift perspective shift around what's possible.

Dallin (09:42):

You know, it's not just for those, you know, you don't have to be a massive nerd. I'm just going to say, you don't have to be a massive nerd. And I feel like that's an underlying belief in myth that exists is, you know, there's a whole variety of different people. And I think even more now, and part of what you're definitely doing is changing that perspective around those who do take part in tech and coding, uh, all this stuff that, uh, it's a really cool thing to do. And that it really is the future. Right? You mentioned it, you're creating apps, we're creating software, you're creating the future of what like site we built on, which is a lot of it is automation and tech. And so it's highly in demand for sure.

Julia (10:28):

Yeah. It's interesting. You say about myths because I should have, I should have mentioned that before it's there is very, there are so many kinds of myths that go along with, with the type of person that learns how to code. And I love crushing that myth, any chance I get. And I, I had, um, I've had multiple women in their seventies who are learning to code and they love it. Like they tell their kids and their grandkids and they show them what, what they're doing. And it's just breaking the mold and maybe it's Hollywood. But then again, I think it is also just, you know, for the most part, it is, it is men, but you don't, you don't have to be male. You don't have to be young. You don't have to have a degree. You don't have to be geeky or nerdy. You know, you, you can so long as you give it a go and you like it, you can be awesome at it. So, yeah, absolutely. I love, I love breaking the, all those, those myths of gender, everything else, age. So,

Dallin (11:27):

Yeah, well, you know, to me too, it's, it's kind of like, you're, you are literally learning a whole new language, but that applies with any kind of field you were to go into. If you want to be, you know, a doctor of any sorts, you've got to learn a language specific to that. If you want to go into marketing, there's a language for that. And so no matter what kind of path you choose, it's goes without saying, you kind of have to learn a whole new language, even if it's not like a foreign, I mean, it's still in some ways foreign, right. But, uh, to me, that's, that's a powerful aspect too, is, is, you know, it's shifting this way, but also, um, this idea of screen the commute is also opening up a lot of people's eyes, I believe around the, just the working opportunities that are available online.

Dallin (12:15):

Uh, and especially now, you know, it's needed now more than ever. And you like the time, you know, what you've done. Um, it like kind of two things is incredible to me. And part of the reason why I wanted to, you know, chat with you about it again, is this idea that obviously in 2020, a lot of people are having to work from home virtually already. Um, and so there's that aspect of like, okay, how can you offer a tech service per writing job to make money, uh, wherever you may be. Um, but also some people are losing their jobs or some people are wanting to look for a change. And so screwing that commute, um, is going to have to be the reality for a lot of people in the future. Cause office spaces are going to dry up and close down and a lot, a lot more people are going to be in their RVs or, or in their homes. Right. Um, following the model that you kind of went on. And so I think you're definitely living proof that it's possible. And in a lot of us who are putting that shift and focus online, um, recognize that opportunity and have that, that vision for what's what's happening, but also what's to come as well.

Julia (13:23):

Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. And I always say to people, this is, this is not like if you, if you think I want to learn how to code and learn web development, um, it's not a get rich quick thing. You gotta put the work in to learn something, like you said, you're learning a new language. You're, you're learning new things, but if you have that learning mindset and, um, the, the troubleshooting and the problem solving skills to see something and go, I can figure that out. I'm going to Google it. I can figure that out. I'm going to ask someone then you can, you can literally figure out just about anything. Um, that's, what's really cool about the age that we're in and the, the resources that we have on the internet. It's just that mindset. I can do this. And then when you, when you figure out something, when you break through that barrier of it's not working, it's not working, I broke it. I can't figure out why. And you do it is better than anything ever. The, the wins that I see all the time of people from figured out, there's a little bit of code to, I got my highest paying client, whatever that win is, is so awesome to see so much success for people from all over the world, all ages, all genders, and knowing that they can be successful from wherever they are, regardless of what's going on with COVID.

Dallin (14:41):

For sure, for those listening or watching, uh, no matter where you are in your journey. I mean, what you just said, there was perfect in the fact that we can all believe that we have what it takes, you know, you got to put in the work, but that also doesn't mean you have to work nine to five to put in the work, or in some cases, 10 to 10, you know, or, you know, it's, it's, I think that's totally, uh, based on how you create that lifestyle, you can get in control of what that schedule looks like. It definitely also takes some time and effort to do that. Uh, I'm curious. So with, with, with my time in, uh, in IT and coding, uh, I'm curious of your perspective on this kind of this metaphor and analogy, but for those listening or watching, uh, think about this for you.

Dallin (15:31):

So when you're coding, right? Like whether it's a database or maybe make an app, um, how many times, Julia, have you wanted to throw your computer out the window? Because there's one character missing and the, the, the program, or, you know, it, it doesn't run correctly. So there's an air. Um, there's better solutions where they help you troubleshoot, but you know, it's troubleshooting say one air and hundreds to thousands of lines of code that you need to resolve in order to be successful with what you're building. Um, I've, I've been in those shoes. I'm sure you have, right. Julian, you get so frustrated.

Julia (16:12):

Oh, all the time. I mean, I, Oh yeah. I want to throw the computer out the window, blow it up everything many, many times, and that never goes away because it's, you know, you're constantly learning and you know, a slip of the keyboard and all of a sudden it can break. Can, you may not know where that is. So we have in our community, we have that all the time, people sharing screenshots and saying, I just, if you look at it for too long, you will miss it. But if you step away and get another set of eyes, they'll find it just like that. So yeah, all the time, but having, and when I learned it was all by myself, which is not the way to learn at all. Learning in a vacuum is not good, especially this, because if I couldn't figure something out, I would spend hours and hours and hours and get frustrated. And then, you know, weeks or days, whereas now, if, if something like that comes up, it's asked, get another set of eyes on it and ask for help. And then all of a sudden that solution will kind of come, come through to him. So, Oh yeah. That, and that's completely normal. That'll never stop.

Dallin (17:12):

Yeah. It never stops. And, and it's fun. I love that you brought in this aspect of having other people to see it, because oftentimes you find that if, if you're like, I've spent hours on trying to figure out and troubleshoot this issue, and then someone comes and looks at it right away. They see the problem exactly where you're looking and you're like, well, what do you have a different pair of eyes than I do? Like what what's going on here? They have a different perspective. Um, but you know what, you're, what, what we're saying with this example, like I believe applies to this idea of what we're trying to do in our lives or in our business is, you know, it may not be lines of code. It may be, you know, we're building the business or we're trying to manage doing school with our kids at home or dealing with losing a job.

Dallin (17:55):

And, uh, there are plenty of issues that we have to troubleshoot and resolve and figure out. And a lot of times, yeah, we can do it ourselves with some effort or we need other perspectives brought in whether it's from a coaching perspective or like what you do in your communities, or it's from, um, a friend or colleague, you know, the list goes on, but that's, to me, it's so fascinating that just that one example of like, you have to do that, but guess what, even if you troubleshoot and fix one program, uh, you're going to be working on another one and that's going to break at some point and you have to keep on resolving. So there's always going to be issues that come up that need to be resolved.

Julia (18:40):

Absolutely. Just like, like you're right. You can troubleshoot. And just having, having a mindset of, of knowing that you can figure anything out. I think it's Marie Forleo has the book figure out about, I love this because everything is figureoutable, but you have to be in the right mindset. And even just something as simple as learning to code, it opens up your mind, you go and you go, Oh, wow, I've just done something I never ever thought I could do. What else can I do in, in personal professional life, in, in whatever you're doing all of a sudden, it's a, Oh, wow. If I could do that, could I do this? Or could I do that? And then all of a sudden it's like so many other opportunities just in something as simple as learning a learning a tech skill that you've never thought you could do because of what all it says. So that, that's what I really love is the same kind of those things come to light and that the light bulbs.

Dallin (19:36):

Yeah. Oh man, I love that. So with where, what you've done, you've done so much this year, particularly to help those in the situation of, you know, what the pandemic has caused, whether it loss and job needing, um, you know, to screw the nine to five or screw the commute. Um, but what do you see as the future? You know, let's say 20, beyond 2020, um, what's going to happen for, you know, this idea of screwing the commute and needing to build, um, a new type of business for people.

Julia (20:11):

So I think it's going to continue down the way that we've seen this year, because I think so many big companies are realizing that their employees don't physically have to be in the location to, to, you know, life is still going on. Yes, it's different, but life is still going on. So, and you, you made a really good point earlier, of course, on a big proponent of, of screw commute, lead the job, start your own business, but that may not be what a lot of people want. So, and now we're in this space of you can work home and you're probably more productive. You probably get more done, you probably have more free time. And then all of a sudden you're, you're able to do things at home, still have the job. And maybe you want to check out something on the side, like you did assign counsel to see if that develops and turns into something else.

Julia (21:04):

But I think, um, what we're seeing now is going to continue and grow into the future. I mean, even virtual learning that is probably not, I don't think we're going to go back to how it was, but next year we will probably see some sort of morph of, of what we're, what we're seeing now in the past with more stuff to come. But there's so much virtual learning universities, Google recently is coming out with a, an online degree of some sorts. I just saw an article about it. So yeah, they're there, they're doing something that is apparently going to kind of throw, throw the university system around, but I, I didn't actually read the article. I just saw the headline. So yeah, I think, I think we're, we're definitely Dick's is a, a shift that probably would've come eventually because of COVID is happened to very quickly and people are responding and, you know, those that, that respond and take it for what it is and run with it. Awesome. If you're kind of, of the mindset of, no, I want to go back to the normal and go back to what was before you might, you might be a little bit slower and maybe a little bit left behind because I think we are going to continue on this trajectory.

Dallin (22:18):

Yeah. You know, that, that prediction and perspective, uh, I believe is, is definitely accurate. And, and I know for me, like in some ways I've kind of been bothered to be honest around, it's not going back to normal, like get used to the new normal cause we've gotten so comfortable with how life has been. And, and a lot of times, like, I think I've viewed that normalcy of like, Oh, you know, the mask wearing to, you know, the wellness of society, like the health side, but there's also, normacy of a lot of businesses are, have gone out of business or there's going to be a lot of new business opportunity. Now that will be part of this new normal. So I think if we changed that perspective around how we can view the future of what exists and opportunities, um, I think will change a lot.

Dallin (23:07):

And, uh, and I, I would also venture to say that, um, as you've referenced, uh, with virtual learning, you know, a Google is doing this thing, there's, there's going to be more, uh, disruption, I think, happening with education, there's already some unrest around like, Oh, my kids don't learn virtually perfectly this way. Or, you know, I'm tired of the public school system. I was already homeschooling. Um, but what I would love to see, uh, and I imagine will definitely happen in a bigger way are basically, um, different online education platforms that, um, allow people like whether kids or adults to truly learn based on like, kind of choosing your own adventure, um, in a way, you know, where it's it's, I, I, you know, maybe you can relate to this Julia and those listening, but it was, I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I was young.

Dallin (24:06):

You like, and I also feel like they take you through such a general studies experience. They don't really prepare you for the real world around like, Oh, here, here's where my strengths are. So I'm going to lean into that and just focus on that study. Instead, you're forced to go do calculus multiple times over when you don't use any of those skill sets, really at all the rest of your career, depending on what field you go into or, you know, sciences and different examples like that. But, but I believe there's going to be online education platforms that are created that are, are like yours, where it's for a niche, a very specific type of people, or maybe it's, you know, you've got tutors and teachers who are online and, you know, or in person educators, um, where you pay for your schooling through an online portal and you get access to all the materials.

Dallin (24:56):

And then you go through courses that not only, um, teach you the essentials that you need, uh, you know, at a young age, um, and you can get access to tutors and training that way. One-on-one but also, um, a way that prepares you for the real world around having access to like, Hey, how do I buy my first home? Or how do I do my taxes? Like a lot of these skills that you, you never really learned. Like maybe you're, you're lucky your parents taught you a few of them, but you never learn them in school. And then you're forced, you're forced to adult, you know, the adults need a phase. And, and I feel like that's really a lost opportunity that exists, um, that when we can customize education based on the type of learner, um, and have a platform or that's available, um, I don't know, like that's, that's a large undertaking and I don't know who or how that will come together, but I believe with the traditional school systems, there's going to be, um, even more disruption happening and 2020, it just may be that bigger turning point that's going to happen.

Julia (26:05):

Yeah. I think disruption is the perfect word for it. Um, and I, I don't think it's, I think it's a negative and a positive cause it is it's changed and people have to adjust and it's kind of forced on everyone. Um, but yet it is also forcing us to take a look at what we currently are doing. And is it, is it right? Is it not right? And what's, what's an alternative option. I love the, choose your own adventure, um, uh, idea that is genius. I loved those books when I was a kid and I would always go back, figure out what are all the different paths, but you're right. Knowing just regular adulting skills, which is saying that word makes me cringe adulting. I don't want that

Dallin (26:47):

We'll use it. But I was like, well, I'll throw it out. Why not,

Julia (26:51):

Yeah. Was, it was good. Uh, yeah, just things like that, but also kind of real world skills that, that you wouldn't learn. I mean, I, I only just figured out a couple of years ago what I want to be when I grow up. And, you know, I was in my mid thirties when I, when I figured that out. So trying to get kids to figure that out when they're young, um, is, is hard. Some people know, like my husband knew when he was like 10, you wanted to be a Marine. So that's what he did. Some people know they want to be doctors. They want to be a vet. They want to be, you know, whatever the thing is and they do it, but I would say 90% of people don't. So how do we cater to that other? Cause everyone has a skill. Everyone has something that they lean towards that they love. They're good at. It can be turned into a job of some sort. So it's just tapping into that to figure out who's going to do it, but probably Google.

Dallin (27:47):

Yeah, yeah. Someone who has incredible resources, um, and can throw together, you know, the platform. Well, you know, it's fascinating too. Cause I think of there's, there's all these little broken things that I remember as far as the attempts that didn't fully work. I mean, I don't know if you ever took the survey, the surveys around like career advancement that would ask you, would you rather say people from a burning building or, um, I don't know, like take out garbage or something, so it's like, oh, do you want me, do you want to be garbage man or firefighter? I was like, neither actually. So how are you going to know what, what I want to be when I, and then it's like, it limits you to such a small box that doesn't even consider the amount of, um, unclaimed or jobs that we don't even know exist yet.

Dallin (28:36):

Where, you know, even in like, you know, I just discovered a short two, three years ago, what was available online as an online business. And that was introduced me to, from, um, our common friend, Julie, uh, who was introduced by someone else. So it's, to me, it's just like this ripple effect that's happening right now. That's, that's causing a whole shift and movement and a disruption. And, uh, and so I think, uh, I think for those who may be struggling to see opportunity or knowing how to screw the night or screw the commute, um, I, I think it's shifting the perspective around, well, how can I take advantage of what's happening right now? Um, because there's too many opportunities to count, I think.

Julia (29:26):

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it's easy for us to say because we're in it and we've been in it, we're, we're aware of all the opportunities, but just letting, letting people know that those opportunities exist. Um, and saying, you know, you can do this, you can do this, but about this kind of there's. So until you realize, like when you grow up, you're, you're not really told you can be an entrepreneur like that is that that's not really something that is,

Dallin (29:50):

It's like a stigma, like people are like, Oh, so you're going to be broke for some reason people associate it with being broke. Yeah.

Julia (29:57):

Yeah. Yeah. So unless your parents are, you may not know. And I never, you know, I never thought that this was an option. It was always go to college, get a job. That was it. So, and I think that's what a lot of people have just followed on in their footsteps. So yeah, it is, is kind of eye opening and it's a, Hey, there's, there's this whole other world out there, you know, there's the virtual online space and the things that you can do and the success that you can have and all that is is massive. So yeah, it's exciting to see, see the shift in the, in the world. Really.

Dallin (30:36):

Yeah, for sure. Well, so what is D to kind of wrap up these thoughts? Um, what's, what's next for you as far as like what you would love to see happen with your community and this movement of screwing the commute?

Julia (30:51):

Oh gosh. Just, I mean, everything we've, we've talked about. The thing that I love, there's two things that I really, really love, um, seeing students of all ages. Cause now I'm, I'm fortunate that I, you know, I get to teach kids and, you know, from seven to 77, literally I'm seeing their success and their wins is so amazing. And I never ever thought that I would teach ever, um, you know, it was always something like, Oh no, but it's so rewarding to, um, to see other people have success with something that you, you are able to share with them. Um, so just more of that, uh, is the big thing that I, I want. And I've recently started growing my team and I, again, never thought that I would want to have a team, but I love it love having a team of people that are just as passionate about the mission as I am, um, to really kind of push it forward and reach more kids and more adults and more people and kind of say, Hey, this is an option. This is a real genuine opportunity. Look at all the other people that are having success. That could be you sort of thing. So, so those are the things that I'm loving right now are the, the, the, the teaching and the successes. And then that the growing the team, if I could just keep doing that. Right. Yeah. Happiest person ever.

Dallin (32:15):

Yeah. Awesome. I love it. Well, would you ever go back to the RV life? I know you guys bought a home in Colorado.

Julia (32:22):

No, no. Uh, I mean, to be fair, I think we, we have, uh, one of those tents on our trucks, so we still go and camp, but we, we came from very much of a, um, the, the rougher camping, um, versus the RV. So when we got into the RV and of did that, it was like, this isn't quite what we expected. Um, so I don't think we would go back to the big RV like we did, and we love where we live so much, you know, we would take the tents and we'll go to Moab or we'll go up into the mountains in Colorado, but coming to a home base has been really, really nice. So yeah, I think we'll, we'll just travel for fun occasionally.

Dallin (33:04):

Yeah. Well, I think your, your RV looks so high class, so it looked like you're literally, you literally had a mobile home going around with you everywhere.

Julia (33:14):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Dallin (33:16):

Well, Hey Julia, I appreciate your time. Um, where, where do you recommend people go to join this movement of screw the commute?

Julia (33:24):

Yeah. So if you, on Facebook, if you just searched for Screw the Commute, um, I think it's the only one on there. Screw the Commute with Julia Taylor, uh, free to join. We, we've got lots of stuff going on in there constantly, you know, events occasionally and things like that. So that is a, is probably the best place.

Dallin (33:41):

Awesome. Well, this has been so good. Thank you so much.

Julia (33:45):

Absolutely. Thank you. It was wonderful to see you and to catch up and, uh, yeah. Awesome. Yeah.

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