So What if He Doesn’t Text Back?

it just kind of happened on its own like I focused I focused on maintaining who I

0:05

was and staying myself as opposed to creating myself to being something that people wanted me to be and I think so

0:10

often when I see different creators it's like then you talk to them they're completely different it's such a Persona and I really came into this of like I'm

0:17

just going to be me I'm going to be myself and I'm going to be as authentic as I [Music]

0:28

can I am so excited for our next guest I'm

0:34

so excited for this conversation all her content is amazing and great and so helpful um Sabrina from do the work has

0:41

her own podcast do the work podcast welcome to quiet the clock thanks Beth I'm so excited to be here so so excited

0:48

to have you um so much to talk about but first I want to have you share your journey because a lot of what we talk

0:53

about on here too is sort of these untraditional paths and celebrating those and honoring those and just sort

0:59

of normalizing that you don't have to take the path that you're supposed to take so I would love to hear just your

1:04

journey how you started your podcast how you got into doing this work totally so and I love that that's why I love even

1:11

what you're doing because it's true it's like I today had somebody asked me like how do I get over the shame of being 30

1:16

and not married and it's like you accept it like sometimes we have to accept that our path is not the one that I thought

1:22

it was going to be on but it's so much better and when I stop when we're from a shame based culture that we're so used

1:27

to shaming ourselves for that these [ __ ] m that it's difficult for us to then be like oh it's okay I could show myself

1:33

compassion so I'm really excited for all of this so yes of course so my name is Sabrina Zohar I'm the dating coach and

1:39

host of do the work podcast and my journey is colorful for sure um I'm from Florida originally I moved to New York

1:45

when I was 19 to pursue acting thinking like I wanted to be in front of the camera and be an actor so I went to acting school for three years or two and

1:51

a half and one day I was having a talk with my dad and it was just very obvious that like this is not what I wanted to

1:57

do and it was not taking off um and the irony is like I always thought for so long that I needed to play a part for

2:02

somebody else but in reality I just needed to be myself yeah look you're in front of a camera yeah exact and it's

2:08

like that's why I'm so grateful um to have had that experience is because I'm like oh cool now improvs no big deal I

2:14

know how to be on camera I know how to be in the moment so it all worked out like in the end but at you know when I

2:20

was 19 saying I'm a [ __ ] failure like that I wasn't seeing the half the glass half full then right so I went back to

2:26

school minored in Psychology majored in business um just because I've always been interested in Psychology but I knew

2:31

I didn't want to be a therapist like I knew that I didn't want to go traditional but I just wanted to learn about humans like I was just excited and

2:36

and understanding like science and and psychology um so then I dropped out of college because I failed my PE class and

2:43

I was like I'm done I don't want to keep doing this and got my like a full-time career you know like 90k job out of

2:48

college at 24 you're like [ __ ] it I'm done with this started in sales working in fashion and hated it like hated it

2:55

with a passion uh 208 2017 it's crazy um my mom went to

3:00

the doctor with a headache and they found six brain aneurysms that Cur top of her vessel yeah and then she had two

3:06

dissections of the neck so she was like a ticking Time Bomb I lost my job uh because they said it was job abandonment

3:11

to go home and see my mother and so I walked out yeah they said because she didn't

3:16

need surgery yet so why was I rushing down to see her and I was like oh my God that is so out of touch wow dude the

3:22

fashion industry the devil R prod like it's very accurate like it really is that bad and that toxic and that's why I

3:28

was like I'm out like I I was not that was not something that I wanted to continue um and so in that time is when

3:34

I started my clothing line software so I was seeing my mom seeing how she was like miserable couldn't find anything

3:39

you know a hole in the market pretty much started that and then through that is how I started doing po cot podcast

3:46

and panels and then it organically like people started to reach out to me like right after covid when I was doing tons of different like events and stuff hey

3:52

we'd love to you know can I coach with you can I coach with you and I was like sure so I just started taking clients like just individually just venmo like

3:58

let's just do this private like have a good cat chat then uh when I moved to LA in September 2022 that's when my friend

4:05

I was with her and I was just like I know Shark Tank sent me home for software like I was on set like I was literally I was next my stuff was ready

4:13

and then they said sorry we don't have space can't take you try yeah we'll try again later and then the last day of

4:18

filming they did the same thing called me on the day of sorry we can't fit you on today try again next year so I had a complete Panic like meltdown suicidal

4:27

ideations like lost my [ __ ] [ __ ] because I put everything into this

4:33

opportunity and that's when I my friend was like why don't you try to Tik Tok like start doing your dating stuff like

4:38

you're really good at it every time you post on Insta people like it and I was like nobody cares about me like who am I I'm like I'm just some Schmo that has a

4:44

voice but like you know my own limiting beliefs of like I'm not good enough nobody cares yeah exactly because we're

4:50

[ __ ] human to make a long story long um then I started Tik Tok or the Tik Tok

4:56

started to grow I started the podcast February 2023 so about to be we just had our year congratulations on one year and

5:03

all your success amazing thank you thank you and it just it just kind of happened on its own like I focused I focused on

5:11

maintaining who I was and staying myself as opposed to creating myself to being something that people wanted me to be

5:17

and I think so often when I see different creators it's like then you talk to them they're completely different it's such a Persona and I

5:22

really came into this of like I'm just going to be me I'm going to be myself and I'm going to be as authentic as I can and I'm going to resonate with the

5:28

people that I resonate with and the people that don't can go [ __ ] themselves like that's fine like I love that about you so much and I just saw something you

5:34

posted recently I guess people were asking you to slow down or not curse it as much and you're like no I'm not going to do that like that's not who I I love

5:41

that and I think that's why your voice resonates with so many people because we desire that realness we want people to

5:46

be honest with us we want people to tell us how it is we want it to be real not so curated and I think that's how I love

5:53

that's why I love your content so much it's so honest it's so real I love all the stitches you do where you're like

5:58

debunking like bad advice because there's so much of it out there and what I love about your journey so much is

6:04

like there were all these parts that were coming together all these experiences that you have that just like

6:10

like contributes to everything you do now and I think it's so hard in the moment to realize like the purpose of

6:16

that like what was the purpose of acting in New York and it not working out what was the purpose of you know working in

6:23

fashion in the business and it not working out or you hating it and then you kind of like look back and you're like oh it made sense and it all aligned

6:31

and I love these moments too of where you kind of like I hate this like I hate this I had that same experience it's all

6:37

the shoulds and and to the client that was like I'm 30 and not this yet like that's so true for so many people it's a

6:43

lot of what we talk about on this podcast because we're messaged with all of this [ __ ] that we're like not even

6:48

sure it's like did I want that someone told me I should want that everybody else is doing that and it's until you

6:53

pause and really get clear on what you want are you going to like move away from the shame piece of it and I share a

6:59

similar experience I graduated college I moved to Europe for a year I followed my basketball boyfriend and that didn't

7:05

work out that's fine um but it was great and I came back I worked in finance for two and a half years and I was [ __ ]

7:12

miserable miserable it was like Bland it was cubicles it was sitting in front of

7:17

a computer for hours in a day and I'm like this this sucks and I'm like but

7:22

this is like what everybody said you should do I was like this is it and I remember so clearly I never forget this

7:28

guy we had this like little kitchen that thing you know where you grab your water or whatever and he'd be like get out get

7:33

out now he's like I'm stuck I'm 40 I have kids he's like I I like every time

7:39

I would run into him he's like get out get out get out and that started my journey so at that point what I'm 23 was

7:44

the first time I was like what do I want to do based on what I want to do so I love your journey so much I think it'll

7:51

resonate a lot with our audience that is struggling with those narratives like our demographic are women in like their

7:57

30s like maybe not married yet maybe not in a relationship you know feeling the

8:02

clock of the the biological clock ticking and really feeling a lot of Shame around what they don't have yet

8:10

and shame is such I we have to remember too it's like weird there's shame based cultures like certain ethnicities

8:15

certain like parts of the world that's and shame back in the day was a beautiful way of getting people to come

8:21

back they shamed people back all the way back when we're talking of like Hunters gatherers so that people that were

8:26

shamed would come back to the circle now what we've done is sham keep you out and shame almost like there's this judgment

8:33

and you know even like shaming ourselves like some people say well I'm more motivated that way or I'll get more done and it's like you get more bees with

8:39

honey not with vinegar if you're going to shame yourself into doing something like my friend Masha she's a nervous system specialist she said one thing

8:45

that literally changed everything for me are you running towards a goal or are you running away from Fear so if you are

8:52

shame are you running away from something yeah that's why you're always running versus running towards a goal

8:58

you get excited about the Milestones yay I'm half a mile in I'm a mile in I'm this this and this and like I know when

9:03

Shark Tank happened I thank God every single day that there was one guy I wanted a date with like I've had my

9:10

mental health Journey has been [ __ ] like I was married to my father and when

9:15

I started my clothing company I was literally married to my father like the guy that was an exact replica like a raging [ __ ] narcissist such a piece

9:22

of [ __ ] I was and I was so unhealthy and I was so anxious and so driven by that

9:29

that when that ended like I ran into therapy I started doing ketamine treatments and inner child work and it's like I was in like six seven years of

9:35

floating at Sea trying to find a paddle now I've created a boat and now the boat is to help other people go onto this

9:41

journey because it's like hey I've done this I'm trying to bridge the gap for you to understand what actually works and what doesn't and I remember when I

9:47

when Shark Tank sent me home and I remember sitting on the couch crying and there was a guy that I wanted a date with we had a nice connection it was

9:52

obvious that we weren't going to like be together but like we had a nice he was from La originally and he enjoyed my

9:58

authenticity of being from LA and saying like La people aren't that bad and I remember I was like I'm suicidal like

10:04

that was the night where I was like why am I doing all of this I'm done and he called me and we spoke for 30 minutes I

10:09

never saw him again I never even spoke to him again after that but I will never forget having somebody that just cared

10:15

about me to remind me yes you're eating [ __ ] right now but that doesn't mean that in a month things can't change and

10:20

sure enough it's like so I for so long saw if I don't have my clothing line I'm a failure now I have a business that's

10:27

30 times more successful than my clothing line and I'm looking to sell my clothing line and move on with my life

10:32

so the failure aspect that I had has now been reframed into that was a stepping stone to now I'm a better business owner

10:38

because I learned a lot of mistakes with this that is still going I love my business and I want to keep it going but

10:44

then it was like I had that Shark Tank was a no imagine had I'd been on Shark Tank imagine if I had and software blew

10:49

up I wouldn't be where I'm at because I wouldn't have had the opportunity to have the time and the p in the space to be able to create this and then when my

10:55

dog died CLM died a month later I hit rock like that was it I broke up with the guy I was dating who was avoidant

11:01

Clen passed away my business is in shambles I had $1,000 to my name I didn't know what I was going to do and I

11:07

was like [ __ ] it renting a U-Haul truck is like $400 we're renting a truck I'm moving to San Diego to be my my sister

11:12

so I'm closer to family I the rent was the same I found a cheap it was Co I found a cheap one bedroom and I was like

11:19

I'm GNA try it my partner my enti life CH is like moving through that fear I think we can

11:26

be so fear-based and you know in my work as a therapist I I see that being one of the biggest things that gets in the way

11:31

is just this fear and it's so limiting because there is so much more beyond the

11:37

fear if you let yourself move through it and I think too it's like I

11:42

understand like I had somebody DM me I was going to read it and I'm like what's the point it was just so disrespectful and it was just discrediting my

11:49

experience saying well not all of us have money that we can just move and you're so disconnected from people you

11:54

don't even know reality some of us have families that we can and it's like so you're in victim mode you're just and

12:00

everything is happening to me not for me everything is woe is me well I can't do that it's like okay I had $1,000 dollar

12:06

to my name when I moved I wasn't [ __ ] rich I didn't have anything but I knew if I stayed in the same [ __ ] I was doing

12:12

what was going to change if I don't make a change nothing changes so instead of us using this as excuses and saying oh

12:18

well I have all of this and I can't move it's like you can still make changes in your life that doesn't necessarily mean you have to move to a new city yeah that

12:26

let's talk about the victim mode because I think that shows up a lot ESP especially in dating especially I think

12:31

you know I don't think I let myself send that too long but when I was single and my you know I didn't meet my partner

12:36

till 34 you know I did I'll be honest there were some moments where I'm like I'm never going to meet anybody and

12:41

nobody wants me and you know that certainly came up and I know it didn't serve me but it was real and what I was

12:47

feeling in that moment and C yeah it definitely it definitely didn't serve me and I didn't meet my partner until I was like I'm good like life is good at 34

12:54

I'm like you know I found what I love doing I'm pursuing this career um I have this great little one-bedroom condo

13:01

that's just mine I was really settled in and in and in acceptance I wasn't in judgment I wasn't in shame but it

13:07

definitely showed up for me before I arrived at that moment and literally a month later I met Rob same I when I like because I always

13:14

think it's not about I hate the saying it'll happen when you least expect it it's like no no no no no that's not

13:20

accurate it'll happen when you surrender to the outcome when you actually allow and when you stop trying to control the

13:25

situation and you actually allow naturalness to happen like when I met my partner Tech Guy his name is Ryan I'm allowed to say it now but like Tech guys

13:31

were fun isn't that funny you first meet somebody like they have names so Rob was Cruz guy because this is like a very

13:37

silly funny story but before Rob I always and and this was like also part of meeting him was understanding my

13:43

attachment Style I want to talk about that with you here of course and who I would choose and I always choose chose

13:48

these like very outside of the box people like a chef on a yacht in Spain because that was going to work out or

13:54

like an athlete or whoever and so Rob and I are like our second day and I love to travel I'm very adventurous and and

14:01

we had spoken about on our previous date like solo travel cuz I'm a big believer in that I think everybody should have one experience where they just pick up

14:07

and go somewhere themselves and so on our next date he's like yeah I thought and he hadn't done that so he's like I

14:12

thought about what I would do I thought about this concept of solo travel he's like and I's like I think I would do a

14:18

cruise and I was just like oh God [ __ ] Cruise guy I was like oh no so he was Cruise guy and I go back to all

14:25

my friends it's like he would go on a cruise and to this day 8 years later it's still a joke of ours he's like

14:30

anytime someone says they're going on a cruise he just shoots me this look but yeah it's so funny how we like name them these

14:36

things well same with like when Ryan happened it was because like I went on the date with him and I remember like

14:41

when we matched on hinge just looking at my mom because like when CLM died like I wait I'm so sorry is your mom okay is

14:47

your mom okay mom's okay she I mean listen she has her health issues but like she's here you know and grateful

14:54

for that yeah thank god um but like when I I was the same like I was dating especially in New York and LA are you

15:00

[ __ ] kidding me like it was just just [ __ ] just cess and I I but I was always

15:05

the same I was like you don't understand me and you don't get me and I'm so ready for a relationship and it's like no I

15:10

wasn't I thought I was because I so badly wanted someone to come save me but I wasn't being vulnerable I wasn't being

15:16

open I wasn't trying to connect I was attaching to people and so then when when Clen passed away I remember just

15:23

like that was it my world like I attached to that dog even my mom used to say she was like you put too much pressure on this dog like he's just your

15:28

dog like I was like the if I don't have him like I used to say people like no he's going to live forever I'm going to mummify him because like I couldn't

15:35

fathom not having him wow so then when he passed away that's when everything hit me all of a sudden I was like what

15:41

am I doing what am I holding on to the like I got rid like friends I was like I don't care and it was because I also

15:46

like stood up to my dad like I stood up to the bully and I finally found my voice and so I wasn't as scared to be

15:51

alone because I was like but I found my voice and so I started to implement it when I met Ryan when we first matched I didn't like him oh my God I didn't like

15:58

Rob I was like yeah didn't like him I remember showing my sister and her response was he's not your Ty everybody

16:04

was like that's not the type you normally go for cuz I was textbook they were all tall athletic with six-packs

16:09

Gorgeous fully tattooed comes right rip them out of a magazine and there they are and it's like everybody would look and be like they're sabs guy like they

16:16

all my mom even said she was like it's uncanny they all look the same and so when I started dating him and I was like all right you know what I never forget

16:23

going on the date I was like I haven't gotten laid in four months because the guy I was with before had erectile dysfunction and I was like I just want

16:28

want to get I just want to get laid and so when I first saw him I was like I hated his car I didn't like the way he's dressed I was like and so I remember he

16:36

like he told this might be tmia but he told me he had a big dick and I was like all right I want to find out that was the only reason I went I yeah I was like

16:43

all right let's see I was like all you guys like to say that and he was like no he was right and so then when we hooked up and we went to dinner after I

16:49

remember just looking at him and I was like huh like this guy is not the type of guy I normally go for he's not like

16:55

the the banter wasn't there and it wasn't that witty Charming he was just like more reserved a little bit more

17:00

avoidant a little bit more shut down but like then he would say something and I'd be like wait a minute you're funny and then he would shut down and I was like

17:06

oh my God this is that sounds like me and Rob so much but God but like this is

17:12

what I love about like and I remember when I came home and just that's where Tech guy came from I did a video the next day and I was like I don't know I

17:17

had this date with this Tech guy last night and I was like I don't know if I'll ever see him again and I was like but we had a good time like I would hang

17:22

out with him if I you know if he text me and like he did he text me the next day I'm still smiling from us night I'd love to see you again and in my head I'm like

17:29

you [ __ ] this guy on the first date you met him on hinge you're never going to see him again so I exactly so I said do the release control of the outcome

17:35

and every date was I'd say I'd make a video after saying I had a good third date if I see him for a fourth yay and

17:42

if not that's okay no matter what I'm okay and it then because he wasn't a texter and he wasn't doing that and he

17:49

wasn't showing up in those ways but I remember stopping myself and saying okay every time you go for the guy that texts

17:55

you non-stop in the beginning it never seems to work out so maybe maybe let's try something different and start to

18:00

incor and then I started to investigate what do I want the texting for oh because I don't want to feel like I'm being abandoned I don't want to feel

18:06

like I'm being like left okay but then I don't actually need the texting you know what I mean and I started to challenge

18:11

myself and sit in that discomfort of okay I'm anxious why am I anxious what is coming up for me what am I feeling in

18:16

my body where am I feeling this in my body what's the narrative okay I need to reparent my little me like I took it as

18:22

an excitement and not as a noose around my neck and I think that's where the victim mode starts to play in of like no

18:28

one no one's doing what I want and it's like well that's the problem because if you enter with expectations of everybody has

18:33

to act in the way that you deem is right you're going to be alone for a long [ __ ] time well and also if you're

18:38

attaching meaning to why they're not texting to you know it could be a million different things like if you're attaching this meaning to like he

18:44

doesn't like me or he's not into me or you know it could mean so many other things it could mean that they don't enjoy Tech communicating over text it

18:51

could mean they're really busy like Rob's a lineman so he'll go up in the air for like 4 hours if I was anxiously

18:57

attached I'd be like oh my God he's not texting back but I love what you said I want to back up what you said about like the meeting when you least expect it

19:03

because so many people said that to me when I was single and I was just it would make me so pissed I like oh [ __ ] that and then I met Rob I was like

19:10

they're right but I love the way that you said it better because it's so true it's like when you're a a place to

19:16

receive it like that's when you're going to meet somebody and you know before meeting Rob because I was choosing the

19:22

wrong people I I was more anxiously attached I wouldn't say I like I would choose the avoidance I would choose the

19:28

and it would activate my anxious attachment when I met Rob SE is is when you met your Tech Guy um I was just like

19:36

okay if he text is great if not great if we hang out tonight great and I would I remember saying to my sister I was like yeah we talk like every other day every

19:42

few days I was like it's great and there was no anxiety around it and that allowed me to just settle into myself

19:48

and be myself and I think that if I had approached dating him in in an anxious

19:53

way I don't think it would have worked out it was just really about where I was at same Ryan even says it all the time

19:59

he's like I've had girls like we talk about it and he's like I've had women stop dating me because they say I don't text them enough and he set that

20:05

boundary I remember saying hey you know I'd love to talk more and he was like I'm going to set this right now I work in Tech I stare at my screen for nine

20:11

hours a day the last thing I want to do is now stare at a Min screen in my hand and he was like I like you I want to

20:16

spend time with you and if that doesn't work for you I completely understand but I'm just setting this boundary off the bat and I remember just being like damn

20:22

that was hot like I found that sexy and I was like you're right I don't need this and I was like but and key word I was like wait but he wants to spend time

20:28

with me and I was like oh okay great then like and we do phone calls instead there was a [ __ ] video on Tik Tok on

20:35

Instagram that went viral that I wanted to literally rip my goddamn tongue out and it's this guy just some Schmo we

20:41

don't know who the [ __ ] he is he's not a coach he's not a therapist he's not anything and he's like if a guy doesn't text you for a day it's because he

20:47

doesn't care about you he doesn't care if you're dead or alive you could be on the side of the street dying he doesn't

20:53

even check in with you to see how you're doing it's cuz he doesn't care about you oh my god of course viral millions and

20:59

millions of plays and you should see the comments yeah that's right if a guy doesn't text me every day and it's like

21:04

now let me ask you a question how many are you you are in fulfilling healthy happy and successful relationships

21:10

probably none of them right and I get that well my partner and I text every single day non-stop before we started

21:16

dating and it's like again what's the depth of your relationship is your relationship secure do you are you cool

21:22

if I can go all day without talking to my partner because I'm not anxiously attached in this I'm secure in my relationship I'm anxious don't get me

21:29

wrong but not in this regard so then tell me okay you text your partner all the time what happens when you don't hear from them for an hour stress

21:35

anxiety your bodies yes ex yeah no I love that excuse or explanation yeah

21:41

yeah yeah I think too you know a lot of clients that I work with have never either been modeled a secure

21:47

relationship or ever been in one so they don't know what it feels like and I think what happens for a lot of these type of clients male or well majority

21:55

female is that once they start to once they experience a secure relationship it's like it's boring it's not dramatic

22:03

enough there's not but it's just unfamiliar and trying to allow them to you know not label it something it's not

22:09

not labeling it boring or like you know the one thing is one of my all my clients will be like there was no spark

22:16

I was like let's talk about that the spark versus the the Slow Burn the spark is just you know it as

22:24

well as I do it's it's your nervous system saying hey every time I have felt

22:29

the spark they were narcissist or super avoidant because let's I this is so weird let's be honest if somebody is

22:36

super Charming like do we not think I think a lot of people need to remember some people are really good at dating

22:41

some people have it down I will never forget the guy dated before Tech Guy when I said I was like you used to text me every day and all this and he looked

22:47

at me dead in the eyes and goes what do you not think I know what women want I was like Wow and he literally looked he

22:52

goes this is not my first rodeo he's like I've been dating for a long time I know what to do and it's like right and

22:57

I it was like we were this was a breakup conversation so we were dicks were on the table you know like we were at this

23:03

point there was nothing that nobody wasn't going to say and I was like I even looked to him I was like I appreciate the honesty and he said he

23:08

was like I think you're amazing he was like I can't keep up with where you're at like I I he was super avoiding he was like I and he would always say I had no

23:14

childhood traumas his father was an alcoholic his mother was never there and I was like it's fine you're not in a

23:19

place where you can face that stuff that's not my job to force you to do that no no but the spark I find every

23:27

single day the spark doesn't mean that you're going to be compatible with somebody the spark means that maybe you'll have some good sex and I and even

23:32

not even I'll never forget this guy dated we I mean when I say the spark was insane like when he would touch me my

23:38

body would literally go insane like crazy and I'll never forget this was a guy I dated right after I told my dad

23:44

off so I was at this point I was less scared about losing people because it's like I stood up to the big bad wolf the

23:49

person I was scared of losing who started all this yeah who the [ __ ] are you and my even to this day my friend's

23:55

like you start you changed the way you dated after him and he was wildly emotionally unavailable like wildly and

24:02

he would at first he was all over me and I remember I was like I'm not going to sleep with him because I'm going to play this right all I did was waste two

24:09

months of my [ __ ] life and I remember we were like even when I text him being like hey I don't really feel connected

24:15

to you like you're coming back to visit you're coming to stay with me he lived in Miami I lived in um LA and I was like you're literally coming here in like two

24:20

days and I haven't spoken to you in like a week and I was like what are we doing here and I get a voice note like baby girl relax like gaslighting me like wow

24:27

you're so trtic like I'm with my and it was just like and I'll never forget sitting there and I was like no I didn't

24:33

respond to him for two days like I needed to process we had a big talking to where I was like don't you [ __ ] dare pull that [ __ ] with me he comes the

24:40

minute we see each other spark was gone it was done we end up hooking up we finally have sex sex was terrible ter

24:47

like terrible even kissing me touching me the next day he ends up sleeping at a hotel the next night saying that he just

24:54

needed some space mind you I hadn't seen him all day like nothing and when he showed up at my house that next morning

24:59

saying I just needed a minute I had a suitcase ready and I said get the [ __ ] out of my house and I was like I don't do I said this [ __ ] I was and he's

25:05

standing there and he's like you know I'm emotionally unavailable and I was like yeah that sounds like a you problem get the [ __ ] off my porch yeah I don't

25:11

need to deal with it we didn't speak didn't speak for 10 months I had a low moment I reached out to him saying I miss you we had such a spark can we talk

25:19

then we had plans for dinner sure enough right before he texts me saying sorry running a bit busy might be able to make

25:25

it if not I could see you maybe that and I just I remember I like dropped my phone and I was like oh my God Sabrina

25:31

he's the same person and I never I'll text I remember texting him saying I'm good thanks never spoke again met part

25:37

my partner a month later oh my go because yeah because when I finally

25:42

realized the spark was just me getting enamored by the idea of him hoping that he was going to choose me because he was

25:47

wealthy and handsome and dressed well he wasn't compassionate he wasn't empathetic he didn't he wasn't selfless

25:53

he wasn't growth-minded he wasn't none of those yeah things none of those things you don't know somebody on one

26:00

[ __ ] date if they're all those really they're all those things or is it just your nervous system getting really excited about the highs and lows that

26:06

are about to happen yeah and I think that's what gets in the way for a lot of women at least I'll speak for the women

26:11

that I work with is that this idealization of somebody like you're going to you're not looking at who is

26:16

exactly in front of you what are they bringing what are they offering you're just sort of making them into this

26:22

person that you you want them to be and you overlook all these amazing incredible people and you know just

26:28

trying to do the work to help oh do the work um just trying to do the work to help women like just expand their lens I

26:35

think we can get so focused on what we think that we want and it looks this way and you know and not we miss like so

26:42

many people and I think even for myself before I got more mindful on my attachment style I got more mindful on

26:48

who I was picking it's so interesting very different to you everyone that I dated or picked they all looked so

26:54

different like aesthetically they all looked so different and if I hadn't sto I'd be like I don't have a type like and

27:00

then when I started to look at like their patterns or their emotional availability I'm like oh my God okay they all look different but they're all

27:06

the [ __ ] same and yeah I never would have picked Rob before having understood more about myself and my patterns and I

27:14

also had someone similar to you like I thought I was so open I thought I was so open to be in a relationship and I

27:19

remember someone saying to me is someone I was like talking to and hang out with before I met Rob but he said to me he's

27:24

like you he's like Beth you think you're so open and you think you're ready for a relationship he's like you're not and

27:30

that I like I remember that so clearly I remember where I was standing I remember what I was wearing all these things cuz

27:35

it hit me like a ton of bricks because I thought I was open and I was vulnerable and I was ready and I'd be curious to

27:41

hear for you like with the women that you people that you work with like do they think they are and then they start

27:46

working with you and then they realize I'm not open I'm like probably missing all these incredible men and my eyes

27:53

aren't open I'm not open to different types of people oh yeah I have one comes to even

27:59

mind I did a video the other day like my partner is going through grief and he's going through his own stuff and we're

28:05

away and he was just being short with me like just snippy and short and like I remember I said something and it was

28:10

like you know that like condescending or I'd say something and it was just be like wow it's not that hard and I just remember looking at him being like I'm

28:17

not an idiot like you don't need to speak down to me you know what I mean like wow you just have to do this like just that tone where you're like where's

28:23

this Bite coming from and so a few days went by and I was being very patient being very patient with him and then it

28:29

got to a point where it just wasn't stopping and I had to stop him and I said I love you so let me just say that

28:34

this is coming from a place of love and I was like I understand you're going through grief right now I understand you're going through a lot I was like but that's not an excuse for you to

28:40

treat me like the way you've been treating and I was like I have been very patient I've been very kind I said but it's not appropriate to speak down to me

28:46

and I gave him examples I was like when you said this it really hurt me when you said this I said even just now you made a comment I said I'm not an idiot and

28:52

I'm not an incel you can speak to me with respect if you need space just talk to me it's okay go take some space I

28:57

said but you need to be passive aggressive with me or short with me just because you don't how to communicate that with me and he just broke down

29:03

crying and we had an hour talk and we were there and we and we got closer and we ended up like being able to enjoy our trip and I posted a video about that and

29:10

I get a comment I don't need to communicate to my partner that they need to learn to communicate with me how exhausting way too much

29:17

work and so I sat there and I was like that's the [ __ ] issue so all of a sudden it should just be everyone just

29:23

reads your mind right oh so you're so ready for a relationship because oh because you're perfect you don't do

29:28

anything wrong you don't annoy other people you don't bother other people you don't trigger other people it's just

29:34

everything to you cuz only your needs matter right well then that's the first step of that's why you're single yeah

29:40

because if you don't understand how you need to show up for a partner as well that it's going to take vulnerability and communication then that's why all of

29:46

a sudden you keep dating these guys that don't want a relationship but yet you keep dating them hoping that they're going to choose you hoping that they're

29:52

going to what change what happened when you were a child and reenact some [ __ ] so that you can heal that stuff through

29:58

someone else so that they can come and save you from that but when you actually start to realize like when I actually started to realize with my partner what

30:04

it took to be in a relationship clear direct communication vulnerability open

30:09

dialogue constantly talking hey I don't appreciate this hey I didn't like that I'm not teaching you how to be I'm

30:16

setting boundaries and then allowing you to adjust and show up in the way that makes sense yeah I think those shifts

30:23

are so hard I mean no and so important but I think we get Ken get stuck in that if we don't do the work because I think

30:31

I learned a lot Rob and I've been together over eight years I have learned so much through our relationship about

30:36

like our brains are wired differently we think differently like he's there most men are not anticipating your needs you

30:42

know and we set these like ridiculous expectations to for them to be mind readers and get pissed when they don't

30:47

do the thing and so you know what I what I'll say and what I've learned in my relationship like if you're going to communicate the thing and they're

30:54

willing to hear it and then willing to try to do it that's gold that's pretty good that's pretty good that is gold

31:00

exactly it's like not the guy that's like oh but he he took me on this trip it's like people can use money to to woo

31:06

you people but my thing is you want to know like for me what's a healthy and secure relationship conflict resolution

31:12

how do you fight how do you have conflict and how do you resolve it what my partner and I to this day I've never

31:18

cursed at him I've cursed in an argument of course when you're saying this is so [ __ ] annoying dude like what the [ __ ]

31:24

that's very different than your [ __ ] [ __ ] you stupid [ __ ] like very different experiences we've never raised

31:30

our voice we've never screamed I've never cursed at him we've had conversations that we've almost broken up because there's such tough

31:36

conversations that we're like hey are we not aligning here like we need to talk about this we talk about it and we move

31:41

on that is how you build intimacy security and a real relationship not

31:46

because this jackass is texting you every day good morning and taking you out for drinks but refuses to even talk

31:51

call you as girlfriend sorry that's not intimacy I am I am so insanely proud of

31:56

how how many conflicts that Rob and I have navigated together like I think that is one of the things I appreciate

32:02

so much about our relationship because we're both you know Str strong-headed independent opinionated people and we

32:09

care about what we care about but we also care about trying to understand each other and we've worked really really hard to do that so I'm I love

32:17

conflict I love resolution I love the repair piece I think it's so integral and important to a relationship and I'm

32:22

really proud of how we do that and how hard we work to do that and we not be avoidant of it so I agree with I think

32:28

those things are so important and identifying those things are important it's not the trips or the you know

32:33

flashy things or who this guy is on paper it's like are they going to you know work through conflict with you are

32:39

they going to communicate are they going to try to if you express your needs are they going to try to meet them I think

32:44

those are all the things that we need to be highlighting like you know I when I work with clients we start to get really

32:50

clear on what they want yeah right and what some of the things they think that they want are not really what they want

32:56

and need and and getting that really really clear um I want to speak specifically to a lot of the women that

33:02

we are speaking to here on this podcast because you you speak a lot to anxious attachment and I think there is another

33:07

level of anxiety and pressure that comes with being a certain age and not having met your partner and really wanting

33:14

motherhood and knowing that there is a biological clock there and you know I think even for me I wouldn't say I'm an

33:19

overly anxious person but the timeline made me anxious the timeline made me

33:25

stressed and I you know I think it's it's hard to not fall into that if

33:31

you're a 30 you know something woman and you're not there yet and I'd be curious to hear like how you see that show up in

33:38

your work what do you suggest to women that are in that space of like they haven't met the person yet there's

33:43

probably more work for themselves to do on themselves to be successful there but also they're up against this this

33:49

timeline which I hate that but that's what we're trying to debunk here but I'm curious like how you see that show up in

33:55

your work and what you how you work with women like that totally I mean listen I'm I'm 33 I'll be 34 in May so like I as much as I don't

34:03

want to be like no it's like but that's biology I can't change What's happen like none of us can change the fact that

34:09

like eggs are going to dry up and then that's it like that's it my first thing when anybody talks to me I'm like okay

34:14

first question I want you to ask yourself what's in your control here what's in your control here so you so

34:19

badly want to be married and have children that's not in your control that's not that overarching theme I can't control that I'm not married

34:26

because you know why I can't control other other people so if it didn't work with other past partners but what I can control how I respond how I react what I

34:33

can control do I want to freeze my eggs do I want to look into alternative options do I want to get maybe get sperm

34:39

donor do I just want to have a kid like a friend of mine she's 42 and she's pregnant and she's single and she had a

34:44

she had a one night stand her doctor told her she could never get pregnant so she was like all right we didn't have a con they were drunk she was like

34:50

whatever she got pregnant of course even the doctors were like we didn't see this coming the guy doesn't want to be part

34:56

of it because he's like 15 years younger than her and they that's fine she's like that's okay I don't care like I wanted to do this I'm successful I do well she

35:03

made that decision on her own and it's like and for that I was like I don't blame you like you wanted a child that

35:09

you can control because she was about to go and literally do a sperm donor like that was her next move so she was like perfect I don't have to deal with it at

35:14

least I know a very different way exactly and that's what she keeps saying she's like you know what it worked out

35:20

so I think that's what I try to stop because it's like when we are shame we need to start to look at like where did you learn that this is the clock that

35:26

you need to be on where did you learn that this is your timeline because if it's well when I was a kid my parents

35:32

would only praise me like I had one client and she's Chinese so her culture is very shame based and so she was

35:38

always shamed to do well in career and do that so now we're working with her to start to reparent that little her to say

35:44

hey yes well Mom and Dad might shame me because that's their culture I'm here to say I accept this I'm okay with this and

35:51

I allow myself to be on my journey that makes sense for me because here's the thing I've been married I've also been

35:57

divorced like trust me you're not missing on much besides a lot of wasted money and time I would rather be alone

36:05

than in Bad Company and I would rather as a 33-year-old woman say I don't have kids with some raging [ __ ] I don't

36:11

have to deal with some narcissist I don't have to go to deal with alimony I don't have to deal with all that because I'd rather be with somebody or with make

36:17

a decision for myself from a place of power to have a child than a place of fear and I don't have any control over

36:23

this I'll take what I can get because it's like how what price do you want to pay yeah oh my gosh yeah I think there

36:30

are just so many unhelpful harmful narratives that get in the way of us

36:35

really being successful and aligned with what we want who we want to be with what is a secure healthy relationship and I

36:41

think a lot of this pressure and these timelines are that and and trying to understand what informed them and is it

36:47

your voice is it someone else's voice you know one that comes a lot up a lot with my clients is again it's the same

36:52

timeline one but wasting time right so what will happen a lot is like they don't feel the spark and they're well I

36:57

don't want to go out with him cuz I don't want to waste time or you know I think about doing work takes takes time

37:03

and sometimes that justes the best thing you can do or I've encouraged clients to do is pause dating but they feel the

37:10

pressure of the time it's like I'm this age I don't want to waste time but you going out on all these like ridiculous

37:17

dates with guys that's not going to go anywhere I rather see you take three months and work on yourself then go on

37:22

three months of like wasteful dates it's like forcing a square through a circle hole it's like it's not not the more and

37:29

I think it's counterintuitive the more you want it the less you're going to get it because you're trying to force it you're trying so hard to control the

37:35

outcome of like I have to have this and then when you attach to an outcome and we put people on pedestals all of a sudden we reenact child parent Dynamic

37:42

and you just want them to choose you and then you've lost it you're not even connecting you're attaching to people and so I would rather like yeah anytime

37:48

I deal with that of like wasting time I'm like okay can we reframe this what about I'm learning new experiences what

37:53

about maybe I'm getting closer to what it is that I want and I get to decide if I or how can we reframe this maybe like

37:59

I was just with a client right before this and she went through a shitty breakup like you know just didn't work out kind of thing and then she she's

38:07

back out to dating and she's like oh God I have like five dates and I was like cool you know why I love this I was like you went out with one guy you weren't

38:12

that into him I was like but this is nice reaffirmation of oh there's nobody yes there is we've got five people in

38:18

front of me of course there are people I'm wasting my time no I'm actually learning more about myself what is it that I want what is it that I don't then

38:25

you become because when you start practicing this then instead of it being I I don't want to waste my time with

38:30

this person it's I it's not a priority for me I it's not a priority for me to go out with this person because I have

38:37

too many things that I want to get done today great I'm not wasting my time I'm choosing myself first I love that we had

38:42

a hypnotherapist on here and I love what she said she said nothing is wasteful and as you're talking about that I'm thinking about your journey too it's

38:48

like you know fashion wasn't wasteful like the shark take wasn't there's all

38:53

nothing is wasteful there if and it it's just how you look at things if you could look at is like this is an opportunity to learn something or this is an

39:00

opportunity to you know understand something about myself or what I it's

39:05

like nothing nothing has to be wasteful if you make the decision to to look at

39:10

it differently I love what you said too the distinction between attachment and being attached and connecting so hugely

39:17

different how do you help people see and recognize that difference for me I always ask him like

39:24

what's happening in your body and what's the narrative what's going on when you're not with this person what's going on when you are with this person because

39:30

if you're connected to somebody then you being away from this person like my partner when we first started dating he

39:35

went away for like a week he was gone in Columbia traveling with his best friend I wasn't anxious I knew we talked and I

39:41

was like I feel very strong about our connection I feel like we have something very real here we have depth and so it

39:46

wasn't so scared but if I were attached to him I would have been staring at my phone I would because I'm waiting for

39:51

that person to choose me because I'm attached to them versus a genuine connection is that's okay if I don't

39:57

talk to somebody for an hour like they're doing their thing because we have a real deep connection and I think

40:02

here's the one thing that my anxious attachers don't want to [ __ ] here and not to mention even people are avoid and have anx anxiety anxious people are

40:09

avoiding like let's not play as if everybody doesn't have all this stuff but nonetheless you know what I mean my

40:14

response to them is like I hate to break it to you you can only build intimacy over

40:20

time you don't it's not just because things are going really well like it takes time to get to know somebody and

40:25

build a connection so if off the bat after two weeks oh my God it's all these things and I'm like n you're attached to

40:30

the outcome and you're attached to the idea of them what do you know about them what medications are they allergic to how do they fight what happens when you

40:36

guys set a boundary what are they like to waiters all of a sudden my clients just look at me and I'm like right you

40:41

don't know anything about this person well and I love what we're talking earlier about conflict like that is intimacy you know that is a form of

40:48

intimacy and I think that we don't think about it in that way and again like I I love that part of our relationship like

40:53

I just you know we have that those moments and I feel closer to Rob after having them so yeah I love getting clear

40:58

on connection verse attachment what's happening in your body for me and this is another saying but it's so true like

41:05

when it's easy you'll know you know when you're you're easy it's when it's easy it's more right because nothing's being activated in your body like when I met

41:12

rob it wasn't like did he text what should I text what should I say how should I say it how long should I wait

41:17

like none of that came up for me and I could just be and so for me like I had a little bit

41:23

of a different journey I was still anxious like for me but what I saw was it was flowing it wasn't it was like you

41:29

said it was because I still like when I first dat him he wasn't texting me I started being you know I still had that stinking thinking as my mom would say I

41:35

still would revert back to my old because I also came from a childhood where like every time I would go to my

41:40

father I'd either get hit he'd walk out he would scream at you like he just doesn't have patience for anything like

41:46

he doesn't have patience for emotions or feelings I'm like my brothers learned that now like he can't have a conversation if you talk about emotions

41:52

everything is no it's logic and it's like you can't have one with the other logic doesn't exist without emotion and vice versa

41:58

so for me like when I first started dating Tech Guy having these conflicts I went into like that's it that's it we're

42:04

done this isn't going to work no I can't no because that was my protest behavior that was me going into I need to save

42:09

myself see this isn't going to work and then when we had conflict and I was like you mean you're still here like

42:16

wait you still like me wait you still want to be with me after this oh you

42:23

made me feel safe I feel seen heard and understood and he would literally say that he'd be like did I make you feel seen I want to make sure because I

42:28

wanted to validate your experience my part Tech I also studied psychology but like he was he had his journey he's been

42:34

in therapy he's having a therapy session literally right now like we are all on our journey we love that we're all on our journey but I think if you're dating

42:41

somebody if it flows when you communicate your your needs they don't sit there and be like here we go again

42:47

[ __ ] drama queen no it's ahow thanks for sharing that hey I totally could see how that hurts you and I'm so sorry how

42:52

can I support you yeah I mean the difference that was hard for me because I had to receive that and when you're

42:57

not used to receiving that then you're like Noah no there's something wrong with this person yeah yeah I love that I love all

43:05

the work that you're doing I think it's so helpful to women I think it's so helpful to have somebody to just open

43:10

your eyes to a different way of looking things encouraging to do the work because it is transformative and it can

43:15

change all the outcomes right and we I think we all desire like love and partnership and security and so

43:21

everything you're doing and putting out there is amazing so so great I want to just ask you before we wrap up up you

43:27

know for anyone that's maybe doesn't have a therapist is not working with a coach but does want to start to make changes there any like couple small

43:34

suggestions you could say somebody could start doing yeah absolutely um one thing that

43:40

was huge for me was like taking a breath something as simple as like putting a speed bump between your response and

43:47

your reaction so it's like if you're very reactionary if you're somebody maybe even just practicing to stop and be like I'm going to take an extra

43:54

second that we even m movements are so important because neuroplasticity we

44:00

need to teach our brain slowly but surely little bit by little bit like I have this uh neuroscientist I love Brit

44:05

and she's always on the she's on the Pod and we're friends she was teaching me she's like the brain it's too overwhelming the brain is just going to

44:11

go right back into I need to keep you safe and so is the nervous system because that's their job they're not trying to help us grow it makes sense

44:17

right so it's like okay if we know that then that means we need to work with the current not against it so even something

44:23

as small as I feel sad great you just turn the prefrontal cortex on by a identifying your emotion maybe

44:29

identifying three things that you can do to self-regulate when you get anxious just even I can go for a walk I can do

44:35

10 Jumping Jacks in my apartment I can take a cup of tea then after do that

44:40

then you can respond to this person do something to consciously put space so that you can then even say wait a minute

44:46

okay what's coming up for me just even exploring those are all I think even little little things that you could

44:51

start to do so that you don't your nervous system is not like this [ __ ] is not safe no it's saying oh I'm okay

44:57

she's got me yeah and that I love that suggestion because you can do that anywhere anytime any place like you'd

45:03

always pause breathe check in with yourself see what's coming up in your body what are the narratives what are the thoughts and just try to shift and

45:10

reframe I love that that's a tool anybody can use totally yeah well thank you so much

45:16

for being here I appreciate everything you're doing all the work that you're putting out there Sabrina do the work podcast I'm sure there's everybody's

45:23

listening but if you're not go check her out it's amazing and great thank you so much for being here talk soon appreciate

45:29

it and thank you for having me if you like the episodes that you're hearing and you want to hear more please subscribe to our Channel and stay tuned

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